[gkinberg]

Hello, this post is on behalf of my dad who wants to get his audio/home theater system up and running again. He has a pioneer DVD player for movies and CD’s. He has three front speakers (LCR B&W 601 s1 or s2). The speakers are 88 dB sensitive and rate at 8 ohms nominal (4 ohm minimum). He mentioned that before his last receiver blew, he only liked the sound when he turned up the volume to a good level but wasn’t so pleased when listening at lower levels.  What he doesn’t have is any amplification or processing. I don’t think he is ready or interested in separates so I suggested he start with a receiver.

He wants to stay around $700 - $800, does not need all of the latest bells and whistles or connectivity options. I gave him the following suggestions: Denon AVR-2313; Marantz SR5007; Yamaha RX-A730. They seemed well regarded, decently powered with some good features. With the thought in mind that good stereo sound quality is his primary interest, what would you suggest.

Thanks, Garth

[O.D. Yeo]

If he is willing to go with pre-owned, a quick search in Audiogon for integrated amps at his price range presents many options:  Arcam, Nad, Rotel, to name a few.  There is a Musical Fidelity integrated posted, which might give him the power he needs.

[JLM]

Does he prefer listening 'turned up to a good level'?  (What does that mean exactly?  Do you have a spl meter?) 

Some electronics/speakers don't "wake up" until 'turned up to a good level' (not uncommon with cheaper/more commercial brands).  Research to see if this B&W's fall into that camp.  Hopefully not, so the problem can be solved by checking reviews of  receivers to avoid the issue.

I'd add Harmon Kardon to the list.  Beefy construction, really good sound.

Keep in mind that large power supplies (caps/transformers) provide more dynamic punch than typical specifications (that are done under ideal steady-state laboratory conditions).  Also note that it takes 10 times the wattage to sound twice as loud.  And solid state sounds best at higher output (tubes tend to be the opposite).  Most audiophiles listen around 80-90 dB (painting in board brush strokes).  That'd be 0.1 - 1.0 watts per channel for those speakers in a typical room.  But that's average, peaks can easily add 20 dB (10 - 100 watts in those same cases).

BTW how did his last receiver "blow"?  Might be worth finding out before it happens again with a new piece.

[avta]

Any thought of adding something like an Apple tv ? It would add a whole other dimension to his viewing/listening pleasure. If you're not familiar with it you can access Netflix ( $8.00/mos ), Hulu ( $8.00/mos ), other free sites and hundreds of internet music stations free. He would of course require wifi access.

[WireNut]

Some electronics/speakers don't "wake up" until 'turned up to a good level'.

 I like how you said that   

[srb]

Some electronics/speakers don't "wake up" until 'turned up to a good level' (not uncommon with cheaper/more commercial brands).  Research to see if this B&W's fall into that camp.

Having owned the slightly larger B&W 602, I would say in this particular setup the speaker's midbass driver's relatively stiff surround and spider is likely the main factor in lackluster low volume performance (very little dynamics and recessed midrange).

I can't say I noticed any increase in the B&W's low volume performance when I switched from a receiver to a high end power amplifier, so I'm a bit doubtful that any particular selection of receiver will change that aspect much.

Steve

[gkinberg]

If he is willing to go with pre-owned, a quick search in Audiogon for integrated amps at his price range presents many options:  Arcam, Nad, Rotel, to name a few.  There is a Musical Fidelity integrated posted, which might give him the power he needs.

Thanks for the suggestion but I think he will need a receiver as opposed to an integrated because he wants to use this for home theater too, processing and powering his front left, center and right speakers. Correct me if i'm wrong but integrated preamp/amp wont do a center channel.

[gkinberg]

Does he prefer listening 'turned up to a good level'?  (What does that mean exactly?  Do you have a spl meter?) 

Some electronics/speakers don't "wake up" until 'turned up to a good level' (not uncommon with cheaper/more commercial brands).  Research to see if this B&W's fall into that camp.  Hopefully not, so the problem can be solved by checking reviews of  receivers to avoid the issue.

I'd add Harmon Kardon to the list.  Beefy construction, really good sound.

Keep in mind that large power supplies (caps/transformers) provide more dynamic punch than typical specifications (that are done under ideal steady-state laboratory conditions).  Also note that it takes 10 times the wattage to sound twice as loud.  And solid state sounds best at higher output (tubes tend to be the opposite).  Most audiophiles listen around 80-90 dB (painting in board brush strokes).  That'd be 0.1 - 1.0 watts per channel for those speakers in a typical room.  But that's average, peaks can easily add 20 dB (10 - 100 watts in those same cases).

BTW how did his last receiver "blow"?  Might be worth finding out before it happens again with a new piece.

I knew someone was going to tag me on my vague volume description. Lets say a "good level" is around 85 db and no, he is looking for something that sounds best at lower volume as to not disturb their downstairs tenant. I know that this is a common occurrence that speakers don't come alive until 80 - 90 dB. He needs power and processing so I suggested a receiver but he may have to do something with his speakers too. My thought is going to a more sensitive speaker (> 90 dB sensitivity) which I assume will be more dynamic at lower volumes.

He's not sure how the last one blew but he thinks he may have miss wired it. This go around he is thinking of paying his local audio shop to install the system when he gets it.

[gkinberg]

Having owned the slightly larger B&W 602, I would say in this particular setup the speaker's midbass driver's relatively stiff surround and spider is likely the main factor in lackluster low volume performance (very little dynamics and recessed midrange).

I can't say I noticed any increase in the B&W's low volume performance when I switched from a receiver to a high end power amplifier, so I'm a bit doubtful that any particular selection of receiver will change that aspect much.

Steve

Steve, thanks for the useful experience as always. If indeed he did choose to change out his speakers, any suggestions for an alternative that will likely be more dynamic and/or "pleasing" at lower volumes?

[Austin08]

Having owned the slightly larger B&W 602, I would say in this particular setup the speaker's midbass driver's relatively stiff surround and spider is likely the main factor in lackluster low volume performance (very little dynamics and recessed midrange).

I can't say I noticed any increase in the B&W's low volume performance when I switched from a receiver to a high end power amplifier, so I'm a bit doubtful that any particular selection of receiver will change that aspect much.

Steve

My friend had these 602s and we though so too. They were really need a kick in the @ss to start singing. Same thing with Paradigm speakers.

[Doublej]

Perhaps your Dad simply blew an internal fuse. Low volume listening benefits greatly from loudness controls. I don't know if any AVRs have them these days.

I get good results with my Hsu's at low volume. As far as AVRs  I'd look at the Yamaha RX-V673 or RX-V675. I think Fry stores (only  ) has the RX-V675 for $299 at the moment. That a cracking good deal.

[gkinberg]

I looked but didn't see that deal. Thanks for the heads up nonetheless.