PS4 vs Xbone

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Rclark

PS4 vs Xbone
« on: 11 Jun 2013, 07:06 am »

Ps4 is $100 cheaper (the Xbox One has all its money in the very, very sophisticated Kinect 2.0 camera), far more powerful (perhaps by twice -better hardware decisions), has no packed in camera (Xbox One has a camera that is mandatory, always connected online, can see you in the total darkness, and has stereo microphones, and can even tell what brand of jeans you're wearing, and can even get your heart rate by reading the capillaries on your face... yeah, sounds like fun.)

PS4 is the more powerful hardware by a mile. Ask me if curious.

Far more games, more developer support, has a 4K movie service on the way as well.

The response on the internet as E3 closes is fairly unanimous. PS4.

Rclark

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jun 2013, 04:31 am »
And preordered. I'll let you know how she runs  8)

Hoping I can use it as my file based music player as well.

jarcher

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #2 on: 13 Jun 2013, 05:37 am »
The $100 difference is not really the deal-breaker for me : we all know that they'll be duking it out price-wise near from the get go, if nothing else in special "packages". And the performance specs don't seem that disimilar to think the PS4 titles are going to substantially play better nor look / sound better.

To me the big Xbox deal-breaker is all the DRM BS.  I've been a fan / owner of the XBOX 360 vs the PS3 - among other reasons because of the comfort of the controller, and initially more & better titles that I wanted to play.  But I've never bought a new game @ $60, and don't plan to now, and I'm not going through all of MSFT's hoops to buy / play used games. Particularly when the old console will not be backwards compatible am I going to play full retail for new games.

And though I can understand MSFT wanting to make the XBOX One appeal to the distracted generation that wants to facebook / surf the web / listen to music AND play a game at the same time, I really want a game console primarily to be about playing a GAME.  You can't get the distracted generation's nose away from their smartphones / tablets anyway - so why try?

P.s. Having a 4K movie service - whether via netflix or Sony - would be a bonus for me w/ the PS4.  Unless they come out w/ 4K blu ray players, don't see how else we will get 4K content.  All that is mute until 4K tv sets / projectors are reasonable cost, but given the pace set by the original HD sets, that could be in as little as a few years.

Rclark

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #3 on: 13 Jun 2013, 08:59 pm »
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #4 on: 13 Jun 2013, 09:30 pm »
I think I'll pass on the launch systems. Might even wait until the GenII systems comes out, just in case they've got wrinkles.
Mostly it's the money. If I get one, I'll have to get my son one too. With the cost of two systems, a game each, and some sales tax you're getting pretty close to $1000.

But I do drool over BF4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIa_7SivM4k

jarcher

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #5 on: 13 Jun 2013, 09:35 pm »
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.

Yes - the points you make is what I mean by DRM. And the whole Kinnect thing is creeping people out. I think the press and public consensus is that these issues - which are easily correctable by msft - is what's giving the clear victory to Sony.

The hardware stats are favoring the ps4 - but will be interesting to see if the game developers can make full use of it such that it is a noticeable advantage vs Xbox.

Rclark

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #6 on: 13 Jun 2013, 10:27 pm »
Well, they are both Jaguar APU's, but the PS4's is much better. And instead of being hamstrung by old school slow memory and Esram built on the chip (which has been done for decades), the PS4 just has super high bandwidth unified GDDR5 and no on chip ram. 176 GB/sec versus 60 GB/sec, so that performance gives the PS4 100% access to the 1.84 Tflops in game.

The Xbox One only has 90% access to its 1.2 Tflops. Potentially 6-700 Gflops less performance and slower bandwidth.

Here is an example of the PS4 and what's to come:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLAiNUUEFao -all realtime.

pretty spectacular. But yeah, I'm with you, the Xbox, on top of being less powerful and more expensive, has much more going on that will cripple it. I can't believe they thought we all wanted what they have on "offer".


HT cOz

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #7 on: 14 Jun 2013, 01:40 am »
This is far from over or cut and dry. MSFT added 300,000 servers to Xbox live to handle graphics fuctions for the console in the cloud.

I've been with Xbox from the start and will stay. Here's to hoping the new creepy camera provides hours of fun play with the kids. Different strokes for different folks.   :thumb:

Rclark

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #8 on: 14 Jun 2013, 03:45 am »
This is far from over or cut and dry. MSFT added 300,000 servers to Xbox live to handle graphics fuctions for the console in the cloud.

I've been with Xbox from the start and will stay. Here's to hoping the new creepy camera provides hours of fun play with the kids. Different strokes for different folks.   :thumb:

Marketing fluff. Most of those servers are virtual and besides most people have a 5MB / sec, fluctuating connection as is. Not a whole lot you can do with that. Their one "cloud" game has nothing but race car ai being done online. The idea that you're going to get this massive performance boost is marketing and a distant reality, nothing meaningful now.

Sony opted to build a more powerful, gimmick free device that doesn't require the internet. They do now own Gaikai, a cloud service of their own, but will be using it for applications that are actually useful today, not 10 years from now.

MaxCast

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #9 on: 14 Jun 2013, 11:12 am »
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.

Deal breaker??  I'd say, "you can flat out kiss my a$$, xbox."  Now excuse me while I go cover my isight camera...

iFi Tyler

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #10 on: 14 Jun 2013, 02:43 pm »
I read in an article "...Sony has worked to carefully balance the two processors to provide maximum graphics power of 1.843 teraFLOPS at an 800Mhz clock speed while still leaving enough room for computational tasks. "  Can someone please explain exactly what this means? 

Does it mean that the system (if had to) can switch back and forth 8 million times between the two processors to complete 1.8 trillions floating-point operations each second?

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #11 on: 14 Jun 2013, 03:25 pm »
It means it's really fast.  :dunno:

Vapor Audio

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #12 on: 14 Jun 2013, 03:42 pm »
Serious question - how long before Microsoft capitulates and allows the NSA to watch XBONE owners through their camera's 24/7? 

The current generation of consoles is PS3 for gamers, Xbox for people who aren't.  It sure appears as though that's going to continue with the next generation.  Msft has way too much stuff built in that's going to piss off tech savvy people, licensing and privacy issues.  Sony just concentrates on the hardware, which gamers will love but others won't care about. 

We have an Xbox and a PS3 right now.  I play the PS3 almost exclusively, the only reason the Xbox gets fired up is when guests/parents are over and they want to bowl or dance. 

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #13 on: 14 Jun 2013, 03:53 pm »
You mean >> THIS <<??  :?

Rclark

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #14 on: 14 Jun 2013, 05:18 pm »
It means it's really fast.  :dunno:

Both consoles use an AMD designed APU, which is a large chip that has both the CPU and GPU built in together on the same chip die, which eliminates bottlenecks. In older systems, or in PCs, you have the CPU over here, and the GPU way over here, and they communicate over busses. This gets rid of that for more efficiency.

The PS4 version is also designed so that CPU type stuff, compute and physics, can be shared instantly in the on-die GPU and the GPU portion is also designed to assist in these tasks, which will allow for a lot of cool things to happen on screen in ways not seen before.

The main differences we know of so far is the Xbox version is slower, and has a large portion of its APU taken up by 32 megabytes of on board chip ram, which is a tiny amount, but very fast, and placed there to boost the performance of its slow-by-comparison main ram, which is the older DDR3 type.

The on board chip ram also makes programming much more complicated than the PS4.

The PS4 went with 8GB GDDR5 ram, extremely fast, and just blows the xbox away. So fast they don't need the old on-chip ram band aid. So instead of on-chip ram, they increased the performance of the APU, by giving it 18 Compute Units to the Xbox's 12, and 32 Rendering units to the Xbox's 16.

So far and away Sony has the better hardware.

Both have the same amount of main ram, 8GB, but Sony's is much higher performance, and the PS4 gets to use more of it. On the xbox they are trying to create a device that will take over your living room and is more designed to be a fancy cable box more than a games player. The xbox runs THREE operating systems, Xbox live, Windows 8, Internet Explorer, and with its live tv control, this uses a full 3GB of memory. So now all that  OS power will be put to use as you are up at 1AM yelling commands to your xbox while everyone is trying to sleep.

So the xbox has slower ram, and only 5GB available for games.

The ps4 has a much more streamlined  system and has a full 7GB for games, and only 1GB (still a lot) for the operating system.

@Vapor, I wouldn't worry too much, there is a seismic shift happening right now. The new xbox is not very popular and faces a tough road.

iFi Tyler

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #15 on: 14 Jun 2013, 05:34 pm »
Rclark, that's how you answer a question.  I couldn't have done better if I knew the answer myself  :thumb:

Was I correct in thinking the 800 MHz clock is the timer for switching between the CPU and GPU?

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #16 on: 14 Jun 2013, 05:42 pm »
Thanks for that Mr. Clark.
So we pretty much said the same thing, you just said it better.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rclark

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #17 on: 14 Jun 2013, 05:44 pm »
Timer? Not sure but I believe its just the clockspeed of the GPU, around 8-900 MHz, and the CPU portion will run at around 1.8 Ghz (possibly 2, there is rumor of an uprating on that).

There is also a rumor that MS is having yield issues with their chip because besides being crappy, the embedded memory for the Xbox One is supposedly causing heat issues and they may have to downclock the Xbox even further. Which if the rumor of a couple hundred Mhz is true, would widen the performance gap considerably. Another rumor is that MS is just going to eat the cost on these bad yields and try to keep its initial 1.2 Tflops.

EDIT: this would make sense as Sony is reportedly not having production problems and stores are getting far higher numbers of preorder allocations, as much as 4:1 over the Xbox, which could very well indicate production issues for the xbox.

Here's where things sit right now:





np guys, just here to help  :thumb:

Woodsea

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #18 on: 31 Oct 2013, 07:50 pm »
I did not know this, but the PS4 will not allow external HDD.  But, users can replace the existing HDD with one that is greater than 160gb, which you will need as the new batch of games clock in above 40gb each.
ALSO NO PLAYING CD's nor MP3's. NO DLNA support.
[url]http://www.playerattack.com/news/2013/10/31/ps4-no-external-storage-pc-streaming-mp3s/[url]

zybar

Re: PS4 vs Xbone
« Reply #19 on: 31 Oct 2013, 08:08 pm »
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.

Ummm...some of your facts are wrong and outdated.

But if you want PS4...that's cool - no issues.

However, do you need to attack the Xbox and its owners to justify your choice??



George