Game of Thrones

Rob Babcock · « **on:** 10 Jun 2013, 03:18 am »

Anyone here watching the big finale tonite? I don't remember seeing a GoT discussion but there must be some of you watching it.

Hugh · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Jun 2013, 05:14 am »

Sure did.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Jun 2013, 06:11 am »

Then don't spoil it!

I'm gonna watch the last one in a few minutes. We'll see if there are any characters left in an hour.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 01:07 am »

Well, the actual finale was kind of anticlimactic after the "Red Wedding" episode. Not bad, just nobody left to do anything!

jarcher · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 03:39 am »

Yup - last episode felt more like a "finale" than this one. Wonder how long we'll have to wait for the next season. Seems high time for Dany-gal to get her blonde behind over the pond. Excuse me - I meant "Mhysa".

roscoeiii · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 04:52 am »

Yeah, finale felt anti-climatic after the next-to-last episode.

But hey, Winter is coming.

ajzepp · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 06:18 am »

I'm four episodes into the first season...

On a scale of 1-10, how good is this show? I'm trying to decide if I want to continue or not. So far I'm enjoying it, especially Dinklage, but it's not exactly blowing my mind.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 09:21 am »

I don't think it's "mind blowing" good, either. Ultimately I got bored after the very uneventful 2nd season and actually quit watching it for a while. Finally when the 8th episode of season 3 aired I decided to get caught up.

It's a little hard to say without including spoilers. On the plus side, the show is one of the more "unpredictable" and unsentimental series ever to air on TV. No character is safe, and any of the heroes can be killed off. This has the positive effect of creating genuine suspense. After all, no matter what kind of a fix Indiana Jones finds himself in, he'll always get out of it- he's Indy! There are no deus ex saves for GoT characters.

But the show has some downsides. The most serious is that it's pretty hackneyed and cliche ridden. Maybe it's just he gamer in my (started playing D&D/AD&D in the early 80's) but there's a mishmash of every cheesy fantasy trope all thrown in the blender. Supernatural zombies and dragons exist side by side. There's nothing in the show that you didn't see in some 12 year old's D&D game in the 80's. Another flaw that will be noted by more people is the lack of character development. With just ten, one-hour programs per week there's simply not enough time to develop all the characters the show throws at you (according to the GoT wiki there are 1000 named characters in the books!). Often we get 90 seconds with a semi-important character per week. This spartan characterization and plethora of characters can make the show confusing as hell. Often I see someone appear on the screen and think, Hey! Isn't he supposed to be at Winterfell? only to realize that it's not the character you thought it was but another almost identical one.

Budget and commercial concerns also intrude on the story. Since HBO can show "everything" there's a lot of gratuitious nudity in the show. The books (which I haven't read) supposedly contain a lot of sex but in typical HBO style there are plenty of airbrushed underwear models and lots of saline. Don't get me wrong, I like some eye candy but it can be distracting from the plot. The budget isn't large enough to get really good effects, either. They can't afford to do big battles and when they try it looks like a PS2 game.

On the whole I like the show enough to keep watching it; really it's ten hours per year, so why not?

The main problem for me is that purge the show of so many main character with such frequency that it's hard to care much. The plot is cheesy and wafer thin, and without a solid story you wind up watching it for the characters and performances. That makes the revolving door of characters...problematic.

Overall though there are some great performances. Dinklage is terrific, Sean Bean is superb as Boromir...er, Ned Stark and I love Leana Headey's character as well.

BobM · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 01:25 pm »

I think HBO is doing an amazing job trying to take an epic sized story and compress it into a TV show where there are 15 story lines occurring at the same time amidst 50 diverse characters and 5-6 locations. All set in a different time and age from our own.

The digital manipulations and special effects work is extensive, and likely expensive. No, it's not perfect, but then this isn't a $100mill movie.

The characters actually do have personalities and at least the main ones are developed enough to ferret out their intentions. If you want more character development, go read the books.

There's significantly less sex this season than the first season. Guess they've already captured their audience and don't need much of that anymore.

Hackneyed and cliche'ed? Not by most traditional fantasy standards. Georgie broke some new ground with the way he builds up characters, then takes them down again, always keeping you guessing who is next and what plot will unseat them. Typical fantasy would have all the main characters still alive even after the "last battle" is over. As for dragons and zombies - well he has to follow some established rules, doesn't he?

Bottom line, if you want to check out the "full story" go read the books.

As for the future - - -

my biggest worry is how HBO is going to handle the problems with book 4, and all the secondary and uninteresting characters and families come into the story and then leave in short order. That plot doesn't really lead anywhere and is the biggest flaw with the book series so far IMO.

Enjoy,
Bob

BobM · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 05:56 pm »

Here's some news for rabid fans with both money and time on their hands

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/more-shocking-red-wedding-game-thrones-walking-tours-launch-6C10215234

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 07:48 pm »

I really don't have any interest in the books. If you don't think the story is cliched, well...you haven't read much fantasy then!

At any rate, a TV show is one thing and a book is another; telling someone to "go read the book" to compensate for failure of the former to develop the characters is a big cop out in my book. No one expects a TV show or movie to be "as good as the book" because it almost never is. Still, there should be some minimal level of character development present without using the crutch of expecting people to hit the GoT wiki or consult other material. Each form has to be free standing and self contained.

Obviously CG isn't cheap. No one could afford to have each episode cost $150 million. I don't expect it to, but I was merely pointing out the cheapness often shows through in the low quality if animation and digital matte work. I guess that's one of the drawbacks to going for effects over story.

I give him credit for keeping people on their toes, though he's hardly the first to kill off major characters for shock value. Having read a lot growing and being an avid RPG'r for a few decades though I haven't seen a single thing in GoT that was done better in some other story.

All in all it's a good popcorn muncher, and I recommend it as such. Just don't expect it to upend convention or rock your world. If that's your expectation you're in for a disappointment IMOHO.,

Chazro · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Jun 2013, 08:12 pm »

Love me some Game of Thrones!! I've read the entire series 2X! The TV show's easily one of the top 10 (5?) shows currently on the tube. The 1st 2 seasons dealt with books 1 & 2 but the 3rd book has been divided into seasons 3 & 4. The show requires a commitment from the viewer as it's not a series to be watched casually (the best TV shows ALL share this though). I admit, without giving anything away, the author IMO got long-winded and off-course in books 4 & 5, introducing entirely too many new characters and locales that don't pertain to the original tale. I wonder how HBO will deal with this when (and IF) they get to books 4 & 5! I know how I dealt with it, when I read books 4 & 5 for the 2nd time, I simply skipped the chapters that didn't pertain to the main body of the story, enjoyed them much more this way. Perhaps HBO'll do the same!;)

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 03:52 am »

I read that there's some concern that they might run out of book before the show ends. Apparently it took him six years to write one of them, and he hasn't decided how many books remain. It could be that they hit season 7 and don't have an ending yet. Assuming the series runs that long- a good bet though unless the popularity drops off. There are some devoted fans but his penchant for killing off the bulk of the important characters probably does cost some viewership.

obiwan11 · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 05:42 am »

God you guys are tough on the show. I haven't enjoyed a show so much on television before. They're doing a brilliant job as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps it's the audiophile coming out in you. You don't have to analyse a TV show to the same level as speaker cable.

wushuliu · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 05:50 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock on 12 Jun 2013, 03:52 am

I read that there's some concern that they might run out of book before the show ends. Apparently it took him six years to write one of them, and he hasn't decided how many books remain. It could be that they hit season 7 and don't have an ending yet. Assuming the series runs that long- a good bet though unless the popularity drops off. There are some devoted fans but his penchant for killing off the bulk of the important characters probably does cost some viewership.

I tried to give Martin a go but I have very, very petty - er - pet peeve when it comes to character names in fantasy and I just cannot stand the names he uses and was turned off. My other gripe is I won't start a series that hasn't been finished. Not any more. The whole it takes 10 books to tell a story thing is just not necessary and can end awkwardly for the author (Jordan passing away) or the chance increases you may not be around when they're done (Stephen King - 22yrs for the Dark Tower).

Maybe I am not enough of a fantasy reader (actually I know I'm not) but having both zombies AND dragons in a story does sound unusual.

I'm super happy HBO has huge success with it - fantasy is finally getting respect as a genre. Yay. Now maybe they can do Incarnations of Immortality. That would be a SWEET series.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 06:00 am »

I'd love to see Incarnations of Immortality! Being a Green Mother was probably my favorite of the series. Been quite a while since I read any of them, though.

ctviggen · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 04:26 pm »

Quote from: wushuliu on 12 Jun 2013, 05:50 am

I tried to give Martin a go but I have very, very petty - er - pet peeve when it comes to character names in fantasy and I just cannot stand the names he uses and was turned off. My other gripe is I won't start a series that hasn't been finished. Not any more. The whole it takes 10 books to tell a story thing is just not necessary and can end awkwardly for the author (Jordan passing away) or the chance increases you may not be around when they're done (Stephen King - 22yrs for the Dark Tower).

Maybe I am not enough of a fantasy reader (actually I know I'm not) but having both zombies AND dragons in a story does sound unusual.

I'm super happy HBO has huge success with it - fantasy is finally getting respect as a genre. Yay. Now maybe they can do Incarnations of Immortality. That would be a SWEET series.

I really liked the end of the Jordon (Wheel of Time) series. I thought it was great.

As for Martin's series, the first three books were great. The fourth was strange, and seemed to have little to do with the main characters. I personally hated the fifth book so much that I'm not reading another (unless my wife reads the 6th book and calls it good). The problem with killing off all the favorites is after a while you don't have any favorites left. At the end of the fifth book, I found myself not caring for any of the remaining characters (except perhaps one, but that's not enough to slog through another 500+ pages).

BobM · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 06:23 pm »

I personally disliked the 4th book, because so many secondary characters just came and went with no advancement of the story. OK, I get it, the secondary families are trying to move up the ladder and getting slapped down. Now move on.

The 5th book was at least marginally better IMO because there were some characters I cared about moving along a bit. And the ending (in hindsight) probably should have been anticipated in typical Georgie fashion.

Lets hope he doesn't turn this into another Robert Jordan fiasco. 3 books, no 5 books, no 7 books, no 14 books. Arrrrgh! I only finished that because I had invested so much time into them over the last 20 years. At least we know HBO will prod him along.

BTW - has anyone seen tyhe "George RR Martin responds ..." spoof on College Humor yet? If not, go check it out (sorry, I can't get the link here at work - blocked).

roscoeiii · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 06:38 pm »

A fun link for those of you who are caught up on the TV show or have read Book 3. SPOILER ALERT for those who haven't gotten there:

http://gawker.com/6-minutes-of-people-losing-their-shit-over-last-nights-511100650

ctviggen · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Jun 2013, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: BobM on 12 Jun 2013, 06:23 pm

I personally disliked the 4th book, because so many secondary characters just came and went with no advancement of the story. OK, I get it, the secondary families are trying to move up the ladder and getting slapped down. Now move on.

The 5th book was at least marginally better IMO because there were some characters I cared about moving along a bit. And the ending (in hindsight) probably should have been anticipated in typical Georgie fashion.

My problem with the ending is that there was no one else I liked. They killed off the last person I thought was interesting.