[cloudbaseracer]

I have tried the Oppo 105 but just not happy with it.  I have read nothing but great reviews on the NAD M51 and have not seen anyone post of a better integral unit that can function as a pre as well. 

Just wanted to check if there has been anything new come out this year that I may have missed?  I need the balanced outs and the HDMI aspect of the M51 as well and only have digital sources.  I do not need analog inputs but prefer a unit that functions as a pre as good if not better than the NAD.

As for budget..... probably under $3000 new but......???

Suggestions?

Cheers,
James

[wilsynet]

It remains a value and feature king.  By now, there may be other DACs that are as good for less money, but with it's capability as a pre and it's features (which are considerable) -- I just don't see anything else out there right now.

They've really hit a home run with the M51.

I've tried it with a number of different well regarded preamps (ARC, Modwright, de Havilland), but the M51 sent all of them packing except one, the Coincident Statement Line Stage.

You should feel confident in your purchase.

[cloudbaseracer]

Well, my luck is that something "new and better" always comes out right after I make a big purchase. 

Such is life!

I would have thought another competitor would have surfaced by now.

[jtwrace]

Do a separate Pre and dac and your options will increase by a ton. 

[mrhyfy]

Do a separate Pre and dac and your options will increase by a ton.

you'll also lose the inherent advantage of digital processing the Nad offers...

[cloudbaseracer]

you'll also the inherent advantage of digital processing the Nad offers...

Did you leave some words out of your post?  Not sure I follow it.

[James Romeyn]

Do a separate Pre and dac and your options will increase by a ton.

Dan Wright of MW told me at CES that combining the DAC and pre has potential to delete one entire gain stage vs. two separate components (his prototype with estimate $25k speakers might have been best I heard that year).  I presume this means all things being equal (impossible, purely hypothetical), a combination Preamp/DAC with one less gain stage has higher ultimate performance threshold vs. two separate components. 

The latter also requires four analog jacks, four analog plugs, and IC wire not present in the former, but but let's not derail this thread by going there!     

I thought TrungT bought a sweet $2k DAC but turns out he got the $5k USD flavor:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/antelope2/1.html

Of all the persons I can think of with personal high end DAC experience (especially small specialist boutique brands) TrungT may be the best I know of.  I was surprised he heard significantly better (his opinion) than the modified EE Mini-DAC, which was atop my short list.  In direct AB with my going on ten year old Sony SACD/DVD modded by TRL (all SS, no tubes) with nice Evolution Speakers and nice amp, I preferred the modded EE.  In the same system the modded EE also beat a nice $15k DAC.  I preferred my Sony vs. $10k Wadia 27x DAC, not a slouch (overall, Wadia was better in some ways but not in pure musical quality).   

[mrhyfy]

Did you leave some words out of your post?  Not sure I follow it.

yes,,thanks!!  You'll also lose the inherent advantage of digital processing the Nad offers

[OzarkTom]

The AMR DP-777 Dac/Pre is one of the best. You miht find a used one for $3K or less if you keep watch.

[cloudbaseracer]

The AMR DP-777 Dac/Pre is one of the best. You miht find a used one for $3K or less if you keep watch.

Have you had a chance to compare it to the M51?

[wilsynet]

Do a separate Pre and dac and your options will increase by a ton.

You don't need to use the M51 as a pre, it can just be used as a DAC.

[OzarkTom]

Have you had a chance to compare it to the M51?

I have not, but the AMR been compared to Dacs costing up to $25K and standalone preamps up to $8K and easily competes with those. Many manufacturers now use the AMR at the audio shows. I have compared it to many other Dacs costing up to $8K and it came out on top every time.

This is a very long review of the AMR. Also check out the review in Sterophile.

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/10/04/2013/the-abbingdon-music-research-dp777-dac-crossing-the-rubicon-or-how-i-learnt-to-love-computer-audio/

[wisnon]

If you want DSD too, they the Chord Qute for $1800 or the Benchmark Dqac 2 for $1900.

If you want tube sound, try the AMR for a more laid back presentation and a Lampizator for a more forward one.

[OzarkTom]

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-lampizator-level-4-gen-3-dac-w-24-192-usb-input-spdif-and-aes-ebu-nos-e182cc-2013-05-24-digital-44118

There is a Lampizator 4 on Audiogon for $3700. I had a Lamp Level 3 here for a few months but preferred the AMR. The Lampizator in my system was too laid back so I went with the AMR. AMR has a full remote which is also very nice.

[jtwrace]

You don't need to use the M51 as a pre, it can just be used as a DAC.

Obviously. 

[wisnon]

Tom, I was referring to the Gen 4 Lampi which is R2R multibit. There is a recent thread here started by Gopher.

At least one person I know has both (Lampi and AMR) and prefers the Lampi now in HIS system, after preferring the AMR to the Gen 3 Lampi. However, I agree system synergy is never a given. Both are great designs.

The OP can also consider:

The B.M.C. PureDAC ($1,600) that was first spotted at CES on silent display and will be shipping in June. The PureDAC is more than a DAC, adding a balanced preamplifier and balanced headphone amplifier while offering asynchronous USB, AES/EBU, Toslink, and Coax S/PDIF inputs, and balanced and single-ended outputs. The PureDAC can handle up to 384kHz PCM data as well as DSD, it includes a nice aluminum remote, and as you see from its mug shot is very nicely put together. All for 1600 smackers.

[rollo]

  Let me start off with this. " There is no best" DAC, CDP, etc. There are many great sounding ones out there. How it fares in ones system is the key. The source is very important. It sets the tone or character of sound.
  Is your system bright ? Warm ? Neutral ? If any fit then by all means look for synergy of DAC with your system. I think how we can really help here is to describe the character of players we are familiar with as a guide for audition. I'm liking the new Esoteric SA-10 a killer which can be had for about $3000. Also the Tranquility DAC. Try an OPPO as well which just might surprise you. All three have different characters.


charles
   

[OzarkTom]

The one that I would love to try at the moment is the new SOtM SDP 1000 that 6moons is currently reviewing. This is also a pre-dac with remote and battery operated for $2900. I love battery operated equipment,

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sotm2/1.html

[wisnon]

  Let me start off with this. " There is no best" DAC, CDP, etc. There are many great sounding ones out there. How it fares in ones system is the key. The source is very important. It sets the tone or character of sound.
  Is your system bright ? Warm ? Neutral ? If any fit then by all means look for synergy of DAC with your system. I think how we can really help here is to describe the character of players we are familiar with as a guide for audition. I'm liking the new Esoteric SA-10 a killer which can be had for about $3000. Also the Tranquility DAC. Try an OPPO as well which just might surprise you. All three have different characters.


charles
 

Charles,

The OP specifically said no Opp.

To me, just as important as bright/warm/neutral descriptions is the description of tonal fidelity, dynamism and air. Other may have their own pet characteristics.

Cheers

[James Romeyn]

  Let me start off with this. " There is no best" DAC, CDP, etc. There are many great sounding ones out there. How it fares in ones system is the key. The source is very important. It sets the tone or character of sound.
  Is your system bright ? Warm ? Neutral ? If any fit then by all means look for synergy of DAC with your system. I think how we can really help here is to describe the character of players we are familiar with as a guide for audition. I'm liking the new Esoteric SA-10 a killer which can be had for about $3000. Also the Tranquility DAC. Try an OPPO as well which just might surprise you. All three have different characters.


charles
 

This is just one person's opinion with a keyboard, please don't be offended, it's not meant to be, really.Two areas in which the synergies described above are most critical, often apply and are impossible to ignore are amp/speakers and speakers/room. 

But otherwise, I tend to disagree with the above philosophy.  A prime goal should be overall neutrality.  The more neutral is the room and system the less one may be concerned with "system synergy."  I have nothing against system synergy, do not deny its value and importance, but the less the system relies on "synergy" the wider are choices and the higher is potential performance threshold.

Also, the further upstream is the component, the less should synergy apply.  I tend to think the better the source the more neutral are they.

Source differences may be more along the lines of the following.  Getting back to my earlier post above, comparing my TRL-modded Sony SACD/DVD vs. my friend's $10k Wadia 27x.  Yes, the latter was (IIRC) more dynamic, had larger stage, more fireworks in the images (in a good way), but the former made me relax more and a had more of that effect of wrapping you up in a warm cozy blanket on a cold day.  The latter also had some hard to pinpoint haze/glaze/hash or noise over the presentation.  So I'd probably pick the former in a blind comparison in spite of some things the latter did better.  Maybe someone else would so highly prize the latter's better qualities that they'd pick it over the former.  No one could or should argue with that choice, it's just their sequence of values in performance.  And maybe, for whatever reasons, they just don't hear or prefer the quality I described in the modded Sony. 

I heard similar differences comparing the TRL Sony vs. two other very very good DACs.  Tonal spectrum was never different in any of these comparisons.       

Yes, I can see an argument where one might say, if the system was very laid back the Wadia might be preferred, but I would likely say that any system in which the Wadia worked better had worse problems I'd fix first.  Another way to say this is if the system/room requires custom tailoring of the source in order to make it work, fix those things first.

IMO the better digital source between the TRL/Sony and the Wadia 27x would be one with the best qualities of both and none of the Wadia's apparent weakness. 

So, ultimately, I flat disagree and believe one can and rightly should say DAC A is better than DAC B.  Let me try this last analogy: a recording engineer will absolutely rightly prefer mic A over mic B for a given application.  In this analogy, the mic is the audiophile's speaker (mic converts mechanical energy into electrical, speaker is vice versa).  But the engineer will not rightly desire to custom tailor the sound with a particular mic preamp.  He will always prefer and desire only the "highest quality" potential mic preamp.  He wants the quietest, most transparent, most pure preamp possible.  He'll tailor the application with the mic and spacing and other acoustics, but he desires pure neutrality in the preamp and there is never a variation in this desire/goal. 

In this analogy the mic preamp is the audiophile's DAC. 

Anyone hear the Antelope Audio DACs?  I've not, but TrungT prefers them, and he's heard a ton of great DACs in his system, which appears to be very nice.