[Oswego0522]

I just ran the tone test (3 times) with the meter equidistant between the speakers (speakers are 8' apart) and about 3' in front of the speakers.

100 hz = 80 dB
80 hz = missing tone
60 hz = 90 dB
50 hz = 89 dB
40 hz = 90 dB
30 hz = 74 dB
20 hz = 72 dB

Do these results suggest anything regarding my sense that bass is lacking in my 15' x 30' room?

Do I need to run the test in a different way?

[Mag]

I don't know, it suggests to me that you're getting drop out in the upper bass freq. In my opinion that's  the good all important bass.

You want a speaker with slam bass. Anyway with my system I have the cut off freq. set at 80 hz. So my Paradigm Studio 100 v2 have slam bass in these freq. with the sub filling in the lower bass freq. That's in 5.1 Neo:6.

In stereo there's no shortage of bass either as these speakers can go down to 30 hz, no problem. But my room is not quite as big as yours.

[brucek]

I then found a bass adjustment on my AV receiver and cranked up the bass setting. Voila, I had what I consider to be decent bass. However, I have no idea what this means—that is, does the speakers producing decent bass only when the AV receiver bass adjustment is cranked up point towards a shortcoming with a particular element of my Dali/Bryston setup?

My living room setup: Dali Epicon 6 speakers, 4BSST2, BP17, BDA-2, BDP-2.

There is no shortcoming with regard to your electronics. They will produce low frequencies without fail. The problem is a function of the room and speaker placement. To free yourself of the requirement of having to place your mains at some aesthetically ridiculous positions, the solution (as already forwarded by James T and your Dali national sales rep ) is to add a subwoofer (or two). This frees you to place your mains at the standard positions we're all use to for proper sound staging, and then position the sub(s) at a spot in the room that compliments the low frequencies at the listening position.

You aren't using a processor, so you can't take advantage of its bass management, but no problem, subs have built in bass management that will facilitate this function. You will rely on the natural roll-off at 35Hz of your mains, and play with the cutoff controls of the sub to integrate it for a smooth transition.

Just T-connect a subs left and right low level inputs from your BP-17's left and right output, and place the sub near a corner to start and see what you can do to improve the sound.

I just ran the tone test (3 times) with the meter equidistant between the speakers (speakers are 8' apart) and about 3' in front of the speakers.

100 hz = 80 dB
80 hz = missing tone
60 hz = 90 dB
50 hz = 89 dB
40 hz = 90 dB
30 hz = 74 dB
20 hz = 72 dB

Do these results suggest anything regarding my sense that bass is lacking in my 15' x 30' room?

Do I need to run the test in a different way?

As noted already, the Radio Shack meter is terribly inaccurate at the very frequency range you're interested in (which is less than 80Hz). You simply can't rely on any random calibration factors posted on the internet, since each meter is unique. You could have it calibrated to supply you with an accurate set of offsets for your particular meter, but it's a bit of a waste of time. The Radio Shack meter is useful for a rough 5 channel setup of an HT processor in a home theater application, but rather hopeless when it comes to sub setups.

brucek

[Oswego0522]

Again, I want to thank everyone for the great feedback.

I purchased all my current equipment to replace an AV receiver and Paradigm Signature S2 speakers in order to avoid placing a sub as part of my music setup. However, it appears, as many of you have pointed out, that my room simply requires a subwoofer(s).

[James Tanner]

Again, I want to thank everyone for the great feedback.

I purchased all my current equipment to replace an AV receiver and Paradigm Signature S2 speakers in order to avoid placing a sub as part of my music setup. However, it appears, as many of you have pointed out, that my room simply requires a subwoofer(s).

Or a pair of Model T's that go to 25Hz. 

James

[Oswego0522]

James, you big tease. Where were you when I was writing out the check for the Dali speakers 

[Anonamemouse]

Have you tried "reverse enginering"?
Place the loudspeaker cabinets at your listening position, and then search the room for where the sound is best. place the loudspeakers there, and the sound should be similar at the listening position.

I do not understand why you do not have fabulous bass... You sure have the right room size (I would LOVE to have a living room that size). It is definitely not a equipment problem (unless there is something wrong with the loudspeakers). My suggestion would be to borrow another pair of loudspeakers and listen if it makes any difference.

[tim92gts]

i suspect the answer is alluded to in your first sentence.
That's a lovely spacious airy room which will take plenty of power to render
good bass. You'll be losing energy through the glass and the opening at the side.
Two 6.5" drivers with low sensitivity will struggle.
Your ears were correct at the first demo!

JMHO
Tim

[James Tanner]

James, you big tease. Where were you when I was writing out the check for the Dali speakers 

Sorry I missed that opportunity

James

[Oswego0522]

Not easy, but this weekend I am going to lug my Dali speakers to another vendor's audition room in which I listened to both Aerial Acoustic 9s and Paradigm Signature S6s. Their audition room is nothing like my living room, but these speakers had plenty of bass, even the S6s.

If the Dalis can keep pace, then I will definitely know it is my room and I will look for a sub solution.

If the Dalis fall short, then, after I stop crying, I will either look at a sub solution or bite the bullet, dump the Dalis and go with something that truly works in my room.

[Robert D]

Here is a pair of Signature S8V3S with a pair of Paradigm Sub1's 
And or course a pair of 4Bsst2s[




Enjoy

Regards Robert

[Oswego0522]

Robert, I think that if I lived in the home adjacent to yours--heck, even if I lived around the block from your home--that I would hear more bass coming from your system than I would sitting in my living room playing mine.  I am jealous!

Looks like a music-only setup? I guess that I already know the answer, but I will ask anyway...how do you rate the Paradigm S1's performance playing music???

[tim92gts]

Here is a pair of Signature S8V3S with a pair of Paradigm Sub1's 

Lovely!

Tim

[Robert D]

Depending on the size of your room ..I would prefer to go with the Paradigm Signature Series S2 V.3.... But either Paradigm S1 V3 will do you well. But there is a Big difference in sound between the version V2 & V3 .... I upgraded my S8 from V2 to V3. The difference is amazing .. Your ear will tell you 4 or 5 years more of technology the V3 Signature line up must be heard. 
If you go with either the S1 or S2 try and bi wire them.... You'll get that much more out of your Speakers . As well a Must is
2 sub's to even out the bass. 

The synergy with Bryston & Paradigm is a win situation. Your ears will tell you, your friends will tell you... and your right knee
will tell you as well.

If I can be of any help let me know

Regards Robert

[So There]

Oswego, the difference before and after Bryston's SP3, BDP-2, and BDA-2 with my Paradigm S8s (and the other speakers listed below) was massive. The speakers improved dramatically in imaging, coherence, and especially bass power and definition. My room is roughly 19 x 13 with a ceiling rising from 8'8" to 11'6" with an open wall on one side and the inability to achieve optimum speaker placement. Two-channel hi-res files, without the Velodyne DD15 subs engaged, sound completely full-range and startlingly realistic; they are wonderfully engaging. FYI photos of the speaker placement below.

Front channels


Right surround and rear


It seems very odd to me that you don't get decent bass from the DALIs even in your small room.  This seems inconsistent with the reviews on this speaker. It may be worth contacting the management at DALI and their US importer; for the price you paid, you deserve full-contact service. They should have the tools, and more the will, to ensure that you are satisfied. It may be worth mentioning that folks on this forum (and others) are interested in how they address the problem.

Please let us know the results of your weekend listening test.


Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley

The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130

[Mag]

There was a dynamic change is bass when I went from



to



Unleashed in the East, Re-Mastered

 

[Oswego0522]

I took my Dali Epicon 6 speakers to a stereo shop today but only ended up demoing one of my speakers vs. one Aerial Acoustic 9, mono a mono ...full Bryston power setup, including the preamp with balance control, which allowed him to instantly switch back and forth between speakers.

To my uneducated ear, the Aerial speaker projected a fuller sound, with a bit more but not a lot more bass than my Dali speaker. The Dali was perhaps a bit cleaner sounding.

Bottom line, my room, at least with the speakers placed where they are--the only place I can put them, is a bass killer.

So I will buy a sub from this dealer and have them optimize the placement and calibrate it correctly...I am hoping that one will do...

Aside from Aerial, they also carry Paradigm and Velodyne. They are recommending the Aerial SW 12 sub as the best solution, in part because the Aerial has a dual crossover configuration that will allow it to meld with my Dalis better (just quoting the dealer) than the Paradigm S1 or the Velodyne Digital Drive 15+, which do not have dual crossovers??? I think I will try another post on this topic.

[PRELUDE]

There was a dynamic change is bass when I went from



to



Unleashed in the East, Re-Mastered

 

Then we know that your system is working the way it should.

[brucek]

the Aerial has a dual crossover

Meaning it has a separate crossover unit for both the LFE and high level inputs?

How will this be an advantage in your case?

[srb]

Meaning it has a separate crossover unit for both the LFE and high level inputs?  How will this be an advantage in your case?

No, they must be referring to the fact that it also has a high-pass filter and outputs (line level) for the main speakers?

Steve