[neffer]

I have 3 A/V 1+ speakers which I believe are similar to the Av/2 that I would like to connect for the fronts and center on a HT system. Being 4 ohm speakers they are not the easiest to drive. They sound great on some 2 channel  SS amp/integrated amp but not on my tube amp. My older 5 channel Yamaha HTR-5460 A/V receiver does a poor job of driving them.
Question is - What used 5 channel A/V receiver should I be looking to buy.

[WC]

How much are you looking to spend?

[Skiman]

In order to drive those speakers, you need amplification that is rated to drive 4 ohms. Therefore, I'd recommend separates. At the low end of the price scale, Outlaw sells their $549 975 prepro, and Emotiva sells their $599 UMC-200 prepro (both have received excellent reviews). Then you can get a separate multichannel amp suitable for your speakers. However, whether separates or not, what features do you need or want? 

[jarcher]

Pioneer elite sc-05, 250wpc into 4 ohms, 2 channels driven. Class d ice power modules. Seen on ebay for $425 shipped, seen on craigslist for $300 asking price (from 1800 new). $300 is probably the more correct price. No 3D.

Otherwise in a conventional class A/B amp, a stand alone amp as suggested (3 or 5 channel), something like a used parasound, emotiva, a series acurus (not the current new ones), or even rotel. Unfortunately your receiver doesn't seem to have preamp out, so if getting one that does is beyond your budget, then go for the Pioneer.

[neffer]

Price range is about $300 for a 5.1. No interest in  separates.

[jarcher]

Price range is about $300 for a 5.1. No interest in  separates.

I'm sure you could get that Pioneer Elite SC-05 for $300.

A recent unsold Ebay listing - I'll bet he'd go for $300 now. One sold for $315 on ebay last week.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-SC-05-7-1-Channel-130-Watt-Receiver-/140973884310?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item20d2b2c396&nma=true&si=Mn32bwRCt97mdq9A1dK4iJ51roU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

And a Craigslist ad.  It may be out of town for you, but I've gotten great deals from out of town Craigslist who's willing to ship.  This guy sounds like he'd do quite a bit off $300 - if he owns Krell Evolution gear he can afford it!

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/ele/3803919862.html

[nickd]

That's a sweet deal on the Pioneer SC

If the budget allows however I would stretch for a newer NAD receiver. I use a 3 year old Pioneer now for my home theater. Other than HDMI issues with blu-ray it has worked well.

The NAD models sound better however and is one of my next planned upgrades in that system. They also have great drive current, less strange (seldom used) features and are more 2 channel friendly.

[mlundy57]

If you choose to go with NAD be sure to check out refurbished units, especially the previous model. You can get a refurbished older version from a dealer with warranty and shipping included for less than half of what it cost before the newer model came out. One source I know of is Spearit Sound. They have a refurbished NAD T748 (current model) for $499.

I recently picked up a NAD C372 (150W per channel stereo integrated amp) for $330 including shipping on Audiogon. The C372 sold for $900 when it was new and the current model (the C372 is 5 years old) is $1,600. So check around, deals are out there.

[jarcher]

Folks - I own two NAD amps - and they do punch above their weight - but at least the suggested NAD receiver doesn't seem adequate to the op's needs :

The features of the NAD T748 include:
1. 7.1 channel home theater receiver delivering an FTC-rated 80 Watts per channel (2 channels driven) or 40 Watts per channel (7 channels driven) from 20Hz-20kHz at .08% THD into 8 ohms.

The pioneer on the other hand does close to 140wpc into 7 channels driven. I know : NAD rates their power conservatively, their shouldn't be that much of a difference between 40 & 140 wpc as power / volume is logarithmic, yadda yadda. But for home theater you need all the power & current you can get for proper dynamics / transient response / etc. If I had to rely solely on a receivers internal amp (he doesn't want seperates) I don't think I would get any receiver for serious home theater sound  that wasnt class d based, especially with insensitive speakers. It just isn't practical or cost effective to load up a class a/b receiver with the kind of power amp section you need. That sort of thing would weigh 60+ lbs and be enormous.

As for sound quality - I expect the pioneer will sound warmer, which could better for over bright video soundtracks. NAD tend to be brighter, so sound best with very clean signals ( or warmer sources). Unfortunately with most video material - with the exception of some DTS masteraudio / Dolby TruHD blue rays - the sounds tracks can often be shrill / compressed / etc.

Lastly  the pioneer is well within the $300 budget.

[mlundy57]

I have a NAD T748 and it will meet the OP's needs. NAD's power ratings are minimal continous ratings with all channels driven at the same time to max. Also, even though it's specs don't mention 4 ohm ratings I checked with NAD tech support and was told the T748 will drive 4 ohm loads.

NAD's power ratings have always been conservative. My first NAD amp (1981) was the venerable 3020. A 20WPC stereo integrated amp (as NAD rates them) that significantly outperformed other amps rated at 100WPC. I also have a NAD C372 150W stereo integrated amp. Even though the 372 has twice the power of the 748 at normal listening levels both amps perform equally well in average size rooms (15' x 20' x 8').

The 748 puts out way more volume then I need. But then this is subjective. For me, my rock concert days are long past. I no longer feel the need to be able to hear the music/movie from the other end of the house. Now I prefer to enjoy my music and movies without losing any more of my hearing. I find -20dB a good setting for movies and -40dB for music on the 748. On the 372 I usually listen at a setting of 2 to 3 on a 20 point dial.

I have never found NAD's to be bright in and of themselves. Rather, they send a very clean signal that lets the speakers be themselves. When paired with my Klipsch Reference Series II speakers the highs are a little bright but this completely disappears when the T748 is paired with my PSB Image speakers. Then the sound is smooth, even and clear. Not the least bit bright.  On the flip side, my Marantz AVR tames the brightness of the Klipsches.

Even though it is outside the budget, the T748 it would be worth it if the budget could be stretched. But then it is not the only option nor maybe even the best. Just one worth checking out.

[jarcher]

C'mon mlundy57 - you're selecting two pretty efficient speakers there - particularly the klipsh that's up to 101db sensitive. You could drive that very loudly with good dynamics with 10 watts.

Neffer - that a/v 2 might be 4 ohms, but  per GR research web page is a pretty flat 4 ohms and fairly efficient at 91.5. See:

Frequency response +/-1.2 db (anechoic) 3 db down point is 55Hz
Sensitivity is 91.5 db (1watt/1m)
Nominal power range 5-200 watts RMS
Impedance 4 ohms nominal 3.6 ohms minimal

So in fact I probably wouldn't stress too much the power ratings. They may actually be a bit easier to drive than the a/v 1. I think the 4 ohm warning on their page is because some receivers will switch off the amp if I detects sub 6 ohm conditions as protection. If the receiver you choose will do 4 ohm s, you v should be OK. I know my older marantz 4001 which I'm selling here on AC will if your interested. Would probably still recommend more the pioneer I mentioned before though.

[bfs21]

Actually I have a Rotel RSX-1056 5.1 Receiver that I'm just about to let go. Let me know if you'd be interested.

I tested once on a set of A/V2s and noticed nothing from a power perspective.

Rotel has a really nice sound and is up there with the best names for SS receivers. I've been happy. New was about $1,300 if I recall.

[srb]

+1 on the Rotel RSX-1056.

If you don't need HDMI, the RSX-1056 offers good sound with an honest 75W/ch X 5 or 100W/ch X 2 @ 8 Ohms and a bit more at 4 Ohms.  Having a fairly substantial power supply, it can drive most 4 Ohm speakers continuously with no problem.*  I used it to drive the front Left, Center and Right 4 Ohm (3.5 ohm minimum) speakers and 6 Ohm Rear speakers, without overheating.

* Although there is a "Speaker Impedance - 8 Ohm Minimum" label on the back, there are many others beside myself that have used it with 4 Ohm speakers with no problem.

I preferred its sound to most of the typical competition at the time (Denon, Marantz, NAD, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha) and though it was only bettered by the Arcam at almost twice the price.

The only caveat is that there have been perhaps a higher than average number of digital boards that either developed popping sounds or failed completely, but mine has been rock solid since 2004.  They sell for ~ $250.

Steve

[jcotner]

+1 on the Pioneer. I've been using Elites for 13 years in my HT.

[neffer]

Yamaha specs  indicate that it should do a nice job driving  the GR A/V 1 + but the speakers sound very thin. On 2 channel I currently have them connected to my Yamaha  CA-1000 and they sound pretty nice.


http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/htr/htr-5460_black__u/?mode=model#tab=product_lineup&list=within&mode=paging&psort=lowtohigh&page=5

[rklein]

+1 on the Pioneer. I've been using Elites for 13 years in my HT.

I have a Pioneer Elite SC-35 that I purchased through COSTCO.  Sounded great while it was working.  Unfortunately, the amp modules have gone bad and I can only play it in stereo or it will shut itself down.

Upon further reading, it seems that this is  not a rare occurence with this particular model.  While I only had a one year warranty with COSTCO, my Credit Card added a year so I will be sending it out soon to a repair facility.

Regards,

Randy

[jcotner]

I probably should add that I've been using either VSX-21 and VSX-21TXH models.
They are not chip amps and they perform great. Don't know much about the
later models.
My first VSX-21 got zapped by lightning after 10 years and I got another off
e-bay and it's still chugging along.
The VSX-21TXH is the main HT amp now and it's been a solid performer for
3 years now.
Some of the Pioneers are happy with 4 ohm, some not. There is a setting
for 6 ohms but not 4 on mine. If you don't run them hard it should not
be a problem.

[mcgsxr]

I have 2 3-4 year old Pioneer receivers.  A VSX-819 on the main floor, and a VSX-1018 in the basement.  Both function great, but neither is rated for 4ohm.  They precede the chip amp era for Pioneer receivers.

I'd take a good look at that Rotel, or a NAD or the modern Pioneer if it was my setup.