The best transport for digital audio?

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geowak

The best transport for digital audio?
« on: 11 May 2013, 10:21 pm »
I am casually looking for another transport system.

What is the best engineered and best sounding digital transport you have heard? I am not looking for the best DAC section, but rather a very good transport and digital output for ANOTHER external DAC.

I know of some good ones out there from the past. Pioneer PD-65 (stable platter), Sony XA20ES (puck and fixed optical). Also there is Parasound's new high-speed spinning ROM drive. What is really good?

Looking to spend under $500.

Freo-1

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #1 on: 11 May 2013, 10:43 pm »
Sorry, forgot to read the 500.00  :oops:
 
I would still recommend a Oppo.  The 93 and 95 both have jitter that is almost non-existent.  Best of all, you can still get it fixed if necessary.
« Last Edit: 12 May 2013, 12:21 am by Freo-1 »

audiogoober

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #2 on: 12 May 2013, 12:02 am »
The Pioneer Elite PD-S95 was pretty expensive but can be found for $500-$750 on the used market if you're patient. This is my favorite CD transport.

The Krell KAV 300CD is another very good one, or anything with the VRDS mechanism for that matter. Esoteric still uses VRDS clamping mechanisms. Their P-03 and P-01 are the best transports in the world in my opinion.

For under $500, I'd say run to the Pioneer Elite PD-65.

The EAD also has the stable platter in their T1000 transport.







geowak

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #3 on: 14 May 2013, 04:47 pm »
Going with a gently used Sony XA20es cd player for transport to external DAC. I will keep everyone posted on the sound later.

Geardaddy

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #4 on: 14 May 2013, 04:53 pm »
Oppo is a good Swiss army knife entity.  Also, I have heard really good things from a friend about the Parasound unit.

There is always the option of a non-mechanical transport such as an Apple TV, Airport Express, Sonos or Logitech squeezebox.

geowak

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #5 on: 14 May 2013, 11:41 pm »
All good recommendations for sure. Lite Cd 21 by Pacific Valve looks like a good unit also by a bit over my budget. Also the Teac T1 VRDS also looks nice, but also too high $$. Oppo is a great unit, but for my budget, went with the older Sony unit. Thanks for all the
comments.

jarcher

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Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #6 on: 15 May 2013, 01:14 am »
I know the OP has made his decision, but I always thought the Rega Apollo CD player  - and by extension it's successor the Apollo R - would make good transports without having to go to far back into yesteryear.  The transport is a fairly simply & robust top loader (based on a humble Sanyo), but more importantly the memory buffer (only 20MB) really helps in error correction and to make adjustments to the laser positioning as needed. I formerly had an Apollo, and even though it was succeeded by a computer + DAC for convenience + sound quality, the Apollo seemed immune to CDs even in the worst condition.  It was really a great transport, and can easily be had at $500 or less. I think I sold mine for that or less over a year or two ago.

Rclark

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #7 on: 15 May 2013, 01:33 am »
For the money it has to be the Emotiva ERC-2. Segmented, seperate power supplies for everything, tank like build. I think the dac might be the only weak point of the ERC-2 (and that's only in reference to uber high end gear, very expensive stuff). For a transport, I would be hard pressed to think of what else a transport might benefit from other than maybe a ...granite cabinet... For a device that is just reading a cd and transmitting that information to an external dac, the ERC-2 has to be at least near as good as it gets. Plus 5 year warrantee.

forgot to mention the extremely high sample rate. The rarest, oldest, and most scratched discs? This WILL play it.

Phil A

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #8 on: 15 May 2013, 02:06 am »
I still like my Marantz DV9600 and have a few Oppos, one of them modded.  The best I ever had in the system was many moons ago - Proceed PMDT.  If I wasn't transitioning to computer audio, I'd probably buy a friend's Marantz DV9600 as a spare.  I expect when I'm done digitizing files at some point, it will be rare to spin a disc.

Diamond Dog

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Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #9 on: 15 May 2013, 02:48 am »
geowak: Please permit me to go a bit OT as I just wanted to address Mr. Clarke's post, if I may... 
I'll be (uncharacteristically ? ) brief.

For the money it has to be the Emotiva ERC-2. Segmented, seperate power supplies for everything, tank like build. I think the dac might be the only weak point of the ERC-2 (and that's only in reference to uber high end gear, very expensive stuff). For a transport, I would be hard pressed to think of what else a transport might benefit from other than maybe a ...granite cabinet... For a device that is just reading a cd and transmitting that information to an external dac, the ERC-2 has to be at least near as good as it gets. Plus 5 year wattantee.

Please...

This is the VMK-3.5-2S transport mechanism from an Esoteric K-01:



It, on it's own, weighs nearly as much as that entire "built like a tank " Emotiva and the box it rode in on.The unit it is a part of weighs in at 31 kg (just under 70 lbs., Amerikaner...) without a grain of granite going into it's construction. This transport mechanism is precision-engineered and built in-house, not some off-the-shelf Phillips or Sony plastic fantastic disc-spinner built to a price point to go into $500.00 players. Think it's going to be a better transport than that ERC-2 ? Still think the ERC-2 is" near as good as it gets "? As much as you may not want to admit it, this stuff does make a difference. This stuff does matter. Hear it for yourself and see if you still think the way you did before you heard it. Not a diss, Mr. Clark. Just sayin' that what makes up a really awesome transport ain't that simple. Scoop one for $ 500 or less? Hell no, but you said you were hard-pressed to think of what else a transport might benefit from...here's a good place to start.
Hyperbole is not your friend.

Thanks, geowak.  :thumb:

D.D.

jarcher

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Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #10 on: 15 May 2013, 04:06 am »
I wonder at what point "enough is enough" on the transport hardware end.  Sure ideally that little plastic disc could be spun on a piece of granite suspended on a bed of air in a hermetic chamber while its rotation is timed with an atomic clock......but will it make an audible difference? 

I guess that's why I liked the cheap(er) and cheerful alternative of a Rega Apollo that tries to address potential problems with a software approach vs a brute force hardware approach.  I.e. by using the memory buffer and software to ensure the read is as accurate as possible on the fly - and if not to go back at it to try to get it right before anyone notices (i.e. the buffer "buying it time").  Seems the "brains before brawn" is the better - and more cost effective - approach.  After all, I think most people these days conclude that PC based audio is the way to go for digital sound quality - and what is that for the most part than a rip of something to memory storage (whether it's a cd or back to the master).  That is basically what a Rega Apollo is doing on a temporal basis - putting the data into memory, checking it, improving it, then spitting it out, though not permanently retaining it in storage. If $500 of hardware + software can do 98% of the job that 10 times as much of hardware alone can, that seems to be the answer to me.

charmerci

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #11 on: 15 May 2013, 04:36 am »
I expect when I'm done digitizing files at some point, it will be rare to spin a disc.

That's what I thought, I still play discs.

My computer (this one) is hooked right up to my stereo and when I check out discs from the library, I pop them in. When I get new ones, the same. I listen to them a lot for a week or so before it goes into the files and then listened to with random play.

MttBsh

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Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #12 on: 15 May 2013, 04:56 am »
Sorry, forgot to read the 500.00  :oops:
 
I would still recommend a Oppo.  The 93 and 95 both have jitter that is almost non-existent.  Best of all, you can still get it fixed if necessary.

The transport mechanism in my 2 year old Oppo 93 started making noises a few weeks ago and finally would no longer load discs, so I replaced it with a Sony-S590 that I got "open box" for $50.00 off Amazon. I use an optical connection to my EE Dac + and I actually feel the thin plastic Sony sounds cleaner and more present than the ten times heavier Oppo. In my experience, the quality of the transport is far less important than the Dac.

medium jim

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #13 on: 15 May 2013, 05:00 am »
Marantz transports are rock solid....

Jim

john dozier

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Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #14 on: 15 May 2013, 09:21 am »
Phillips CDPro2!

JohnR

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #15 on: 15 May 2013, 09:23 am »
Whatever happened to "discless"  :scratch:

toddbagwell

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #16 on: 15 May 2013, 12:48 pm »
I don't have a problem with this thread as long as it stays civil.

I'm not sure where it would fit exactly if not here, the solid state or cheap and cheerful circles perhaps?

I think that as the majority of current music begins on CD or LP and then becomes Discless, some amount of transport discussion is fine by me.

todd

Diamond Dog

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Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #17 on: 15 May 2013, 01:00 pm »
I wonder at what point "enough is enough" on the transport hardware end.  Sure ideally that little plastic disc could be spun on a piece of granite suspended on a bed of air in a hermetic chamber while its rotation is timed with an atomic clock......but will it make an audible difference? 

I guess that's why I liked the cheap(er) and cheerful alternative of a Rega Apollo that tries to address potential problems with a software approach vs a brute force hardware approach.  I.e. by using the memory buffer and software to ensure the read is as accurate as possible on the fly - and if not to go back at it to try to get it right before anyone notices (i.e. the buffer "buying it time").  Seems the "brains before brawn" is the better - and more cost effective - approach.  After all, I think most people these days conclude that PC based audio is the way to go for digital sound quality - and what is that for the most part than a rip of something to memory storage (whether it's a cd or back to the master).  That is basically what a Rega Apollo is doing on a temporal basis - putting the data into memory, checking it, improving it, then spitting it out, though not permanently retaining it in storage. If $500 of hardware + software can do 98% of the job that 10 times as much of hardware alone can, that seems to be the answer to me.

I can't answer as far as "at what point enough is enough on the transport hardware end"  but can say that after hearing what the end result of all that engineering was, if I had the money to devote to the quest, I'd sure like to find out. Does it make an audible difference ? Well, in a word : Yes.
Using software for error correction, etc. would certainly be the more cost-effective approach but better ? Hear them side-by-each and decide from there. I was of the same mind-set as you until I did. I compared a now-obsolete Esoteric unit against what was in my system at the time and was stunned at the improvement. And what was in my system at the time was no slouch and, to my ears at least, in a different class from the vaunted Apollo. I was fortunate enough to end up in a situation where I was able to go beyond that to a unit higher in the Esoteric food chain ( you can climb even higher if you have the lungs for it...and the wallet. ) and it is in a different class compared to the unit which trounced my then-hero. Of course there are things other than the transport that contribute to the final sonic result, but a good/great transport is where it all begins to go right or wrong.
I'm not a fanboy and the Esoteric units have their pro's and con's like anything else in this bizarre hobby. I'm also not going to get into the discs vs. discless debate as I don't claim to represent the One True Faith in any way, shape or form. I would be far too shabby a champion of any POV to offer even small encouragement to it's proponents. Just adding a dash of actual personal experience to the discussion FWIW.

Whatever happened to "discless"  :scratch:

It's an interesting discussion- would it best continue in the Solid State Circle ? It seems to be one of those topics that lacks a place to call home...

D.D.

JohnR

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #18 on: 15 May 2013, 01:23 pm »
It's cool, I just thought it was a bit odd but if it's OK with Todd it's OK with me. Thanks  :thumb:

geowak

Re: The best transport for digital audio?
« Reply #19 on: 15 May 2013, 04:00 pm »
I wonder at what point "enough is enough" on the transport hardware end.  Sure ideally that little plastic disc could be spun on a piece of granite suspended on a bed of air in a hermetic chamber while its rotation is timed with an atomic clock......but will it make an audible difference?

I guess that's why I liked the cheap(er) and cheerful alternative of a Rega Apollo that tries to address potential problems with a software approach vs a brute force hardware approach.  I.e. by using the memory buffer and software to ensure the read is as accurate as possible on the fly - and if not to go back at it to try to get it right before anyone notices (i.e. the buffer "buying it time").  Seems the "brains before brawn" is the better - and more cost effective - approach.  After all, I think most people these days conclude that PC based audio is the way to go for digital sound quality - and what is that for the most part than a rip of something to memory storage (whether it's a cd or back to the master).  That is basically what a Rega Apollo is doing on a temporal basis - putting the data into memory, checking it, improving it, then spitting it out, though not permanently retaining it in storage. If $500 of hardware + software can do 98% of the job that 10 times as much of hardware alone can, that seems to be the answer to me.
That is ironic, I have two audio systems and in the one I have a Rega Apollo that I truly like as a transport. I thought I would change things up for the 2nd system. As far as the "disc vs discless" debate, I say why not both! I have two Macbook Pros and discless files on a shared HD, also have two Pure I-20 docks to use my Iphone as a transport for MOG. I run one I-20 to a Benchmark DAC and the other into a Schiit Bifrost DAC. Also wants to keep two CD players into the mix.
Hey there is room for all flavor of sources...