[DavidS]

I have been running either a Bent Audio or Warpspeed for past 2 years.  Thinking my system is sounding lean (Mccormack dna 125 is my amp) - has anyone gone from passive to a tube preamp with good success or am I just looking for change for change? 

[G Georgopoulos]

I have been running either a Bent Audio or Warpspeed for past 2 years.  Thinking my system is sounding lean (Mccormack dna 125 is my amp) - has anyone gone from passive to a tube preamp with good success or am I just looking for change for change?

Don't be afraid to experimenting,my experience has been both will work,if you feel you need a little boost
use an active preamp,the lean sound you mention probably comes from your speakers

kind regards

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

I have been running either a Bent Audio or Warpspeed for past 2 years. Thinking my system is sounding lean (Mccormack dna 125 is my amp)

has anyone gone from passive to a tube preamp with good success or am I just looking for change for change?

You said "your system is sounding lean" sound - compared to what?

I've been using my DIYed passive linestages since day one decades back. Clean, transparent, fast, real soundstaging & precise imaging.  Is this what you called "lean"?

On the other hand, any active preamps or linestages produce harmonic distortions, & phase distortion, which to my ears sound thick, vailed & slow-down.

Sorry, I can't go back to any active preamps or linestages as my ears can't tolerate such distortion.

c-J

[happyrabbit]

What happen to your Lamm LL2.1 ??  I noticed it listed in your configuration. I have had an warpspeed ldr, bent tap-x, audion 0.5 (demo), h2o fire (demo), classe ssp-800,and a 71A DHT. 

Dwight

[DavidS]

the Lamm 2.1 was a very nice preamp, best I have had, but a different system configuration and sold to a fellow in New Zealand about a year ago.  Need to update my system config.

I am thinking about something like a Sonic Frontiers Line 3 but not an inexpensive move compared to the Warpspeed.  HappyR - with all those preamps - what do you think about passive vs. tube amps. 

The McCormack DNA has a good reputation with both passive and tube pre's.

[DaveC113]

I like tube preamps, but any good amplifier isn't going to be cheap. With a passive, having a source with low output impedance is important, and even if this is the case, asking it to push through 2 sets of ICs and volume controls can lead to a lean, thin sound.

I used to have an Anthem Pre1, which is a lower end model Sonic Frontiers made. There are 2 issues with the Line 3, one is the fact it uses 12 tubes (!), the second is that they are no longer in business and while Partsconnexion will fix them if they break, it isn't cheap and their rep for reliability isn't great... I had a few issues with my Pre1 and sold it to Pcx for parts when the PT melted down. The Line 3 is a VERY complicated unit, both in power supply and circuit design. It is nice the Line 3 has a reasonable 12 dB gain, my Pre1 had 28 dB, which was really excessive.

[happyrabbit]

I liked the Audion 6n1p preamp coupled to my Magnus MA-200. Very Musical and inviting.   I have started down the SET amp route. With a 0.5V input sensitivity coupled to a 2V CD source...You don't need gain.    I  prefer the Bent TAP-X over the LDR.    I found the Bent more listenable.  I felt the Warpspeed was a bit brutal at times and just recently sold the unit.   I still need to demo an 6sn7 preamp.

Dwight

[borism]

I had an EVS (electronic visionary systems) passive preamp (24 step attenuator built with resistors) with a SS Classe CA200 amplifier. When I switched to a BAT VK3ix tubed preamp I was impressed with a more dynamic presentation, deeper and more defined bass and overall a "warmer" tone even though BAT is not known for romanticized tube sound. Overall, there seemed more substance and I liked the changes. To me there was no disadvantage.

[DavidS]

borism - this is what I am looking for in this setup - maybe a little more meat on the bones.  I have great sources (Lampizator and Well tempered turntable) - just think that all the source has to offer is not getting through to the amp and speakers with the passive.  Been looking at the Doge 8 Clarity this weekend.  Thinking the right tube pre offers best of both - the clean detailed sound plus a more full figured sound.  Any experience with this one?

[GT Audio Works]

I have been running either a Bent Audio or Warpspeed for past 2 years.  Thinking my system is sounding lean (Mccormack dna 125 is my amp) - has anyone gone from passive to a tube preamp with good success or am I just looking for change for change?

I just came back from a listening session..the system has a Mystere ca11 tube preamp ..I hear very good things in this very modest priced unit..good looking too... I ordered a CA 21 in January..still waiting for it..back ordered...Greg

[medium jim]

I really love my Bottlehead Foreplay...simple and to the point....if you need a Phono pre, then you will have to build one in addition....

http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/foreplay3/foreplay3.htm

http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/categories/phono-preamps

Jim

[WireNut]

There are 2 issues with the Line 3, one is the fact it uses 12 tubes (!), the second is that they are no longer in business and while Partsconnexion will fix them if they break, it isn't cheap and their rep for reliability isn't great

 Sonic Frontiers makes good stuff but shipping back and forth to Canada if it breaks cost a small fortune. I own the SFL-2 but will stay with a US manufacturer next time I make a purchase due to shipping cost for a repair or upgrade from Ohio to Canada. UPS and Fedex qouted me $750 min round trip (Ground) and DHL $900.00 (Ground) to ship two boxes 24x24x12 at 25 LBS each. And that was only insured for $200 each box with Fedex and UPS. I asked for the cheapest way to ship and those are the quotes I got. 

[Bemopti123]

I jumped into the passive designs with the Morrison Elad a decade ago...Also had the Sumo Athena which has a passive mode, experimented with EVS Naked Attenuators....  Nope.  None cut the mustard.  So I have been exclusively active ever since. 

No need to have a tubed preamp with large numbers of tubes, it is wasteful, at least in my point of view.  I had a SFL-2 from of the early 1990s when Sonic Frontiers was all the rage...bought used... and sold.  It is a piece I never missed.  8 tubes. 

Now I own a First Sound Paramount Hot Rod MKII....just 4 tubes, 2 regulators OA2s and two 6922s.  Economical, efficient.  Sounds awesome but with very high gain.  I need to use something to lower the attenuation.  Passives to me sound anemic.....when the music gets complicated...I had a hard time following what was happening. 

BTW, I had a DNA-225....with the EVS....It is good, not great.

[medium jim]

I like tube preamps, but any good amplifier isn't going to be cheap. With a passive, having a source with low output impedance is important, and even if this is the case, asking it to push through 2 sets of ICs and volume controls can lead to a lean, thin sound.

I used to have an Anthem Pre1, which is a lower end model Sonic Frontiers made. There are 2 issues with the Line 3, one is the fact it uses 12 tubes (!), the second is that they are no longer in business and while Partsconnexion will fix them if they break, it isn't cheap and their rep for reliability isn't great... I had a few issues with my Pre1 and sold it to Pcx for parts when the PT melted down. The Line 3 is a VERY complicated unit, both in power supply and circuit design. It is nice the Line 3 has a reasonable 12 dB gain, my Pre1 had 28 dB, which was really excessive.

You bring up some points of consideration, how much gain does the preamp have and how much do you need.  My Bottlehead was built to have 10db of gain.  I have to use more of the volume controls, but the payoff is clean output.  If I later need more gain, I can change the values to accept a tube that has more gain. 

My old McIntosh MX-110 has 20db of gain and I found it to be too much, but it was designed with gain adjustment knobs...

There was a posting about pre's with too many tubes, I agree that this can be overkill and wasteful, however, most modern pre's allow the owner to shut down parts of the pre that isn't being used.  Example, if you are using a cdp, only the tubes for that function will glow, or say you are spinning vinyl, only those tubes, and so on.

Jim

[Hear Clifford Brown]

I was using a Coincident Statement Phono Pre as both a phono stage and a preamp for digital, using it's optional line stage input.  Now using a Placette Passive Line Stage and prefer it very much.  For phono using a Heed Quasar.  The Placette is cleaner sounding and totally transparent, but the main reason for the change was that the tube preamp was reducing the gain I was getting from the amp.  This was a surprise to me but it was absolutely happening because a friend was here that night listening and we both heard the increase in gain without the preamp and it was startling.  I would not have discovered this if not for the switch a few months earlier from a pair of 300B mono blocks to a Decware Torii Mk3 with a stepped attenuator.  After using the Torii with the preamp for a while, decided to try it without since it has the attenuator.  I really appreciated the increased gain but some recordings had a very slight trace of harshness at realistic volume levels, so found a pre-owned Placette which solved that and gave me remote volume and source selection.  Very happy now!  The increased gain even allows me to use a 45 tube stereo amp with 2 watts for small group acoustic jazz and female vocals with my 92 dB speakers.

[InfernoSTi]

I guess the range really goes from passive to buffer to active, right? 

I've tried a variety of pre-amps/controllers from Decware to Bottlehead to Warpspeed.  I've got a new passive controller (stepped attenuater) on order from Bottlehead.  I also built a tube buffer and liked that very much. 

I'm thinking about building my old buffer with the Bottlehead passive in front and getting a really simple pre...

Best,
John

[WireNut]

I was using a Coincident Statement Phono Pre as both a phono stage and a preamp for digital, using it's optional line stage input.  Now using a Placette Passive Line Stage and prefer it very much.  For phono using a Heed Quasar.  The Placette is cleaner sounding and totally transparent, but the main reason for the change was that the tube preamp was reducing the gain I was getting from the amp.  This was a surprise to me but it was absolutely happening because a friend was here that night listening and we both heard the increase in gain without the preamp and it was startling.  I would not have discovered this if not for the switch a few earlier from a pair of 300B mono blocks to a Decware Torii Mk3 with a stepped attenuator.  After using the Torii with the preamp for a couple of months, decided to try it without since it has the attenuator.  I really appreciated the increased gain but some recordings had a very slight trace of harshness at realistic volume levels, so found a pre-owned Placette which solved that and gave me remote volume and source selection.  Very happy now!  The increased gain even allows me to use a 45 tube stereo amp with 2 watts for small group acoustic jazz and female vocals with my 92 dB speakers.

I've read a little about the Placette preamp over the years. It gets some good recommendations. I wonder how the Placette compares to the Bend audio Tap products. I've never had an opportunity to hear or see either one of them but I'm very curious about both. I'm currently using a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 in a bi-amped system with an electronic xover. I wonder how a passive pre would do in that type of setup.



 

[DaveC113]

I guess the range really goes from passive to buffer to active, right? 

I've tried a variety of pre-amps/controllers from Decware to Bottlehead to Warpspeed.  I've got a new passive controller (stepped attenuater) on order from Bottlehead.  I also built a tube buffer and liked that very much. 

I'm thinking about building my old buffer with the Bottlehead passive in front and getting a really simple pre...

Best,
John

A buffer is a great idea since many amps don't need a preamp with gain, and a quality attenuator is worth paying for in a preamp. Since  you're building it, the output cap on the buffer and a film cap in the last stage of the power supply is also worth paying for. There's lots of good output caps, but for power supply I'd check out Clarity TC Series, it makes a really big difference.

[brooklyn]

My brother bought the Line Drive passive preamp from the Mod Squad back in the early eighties, he was never that happy with it. After a short time, he sold it to my friend who I believe still owns it. I always thought it was thin sounding in both my brothers and my friends system.

I own a Prima Luna Prologue 3 tube pre which is a basic no frills preamp and it sounds wonderful.

[WireNut]

My brother bought the Line Drive passive preamp from the Mod Squad back in the early eighties, he was never that happy with it. After a short time, he sold it to my friend who I believe still owns it. I always thought it was thin sounding in both my brothers and my friends system.

I also owned a McCormack passive (non buffered) back in the day. I'm thinking an autoformer type of passive preamp like the units from Bent Audio or the Placette preamp may be a different animal.