newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?

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Thunder240

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newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« on: 2 May 2013, 03:58 am »
I'm an Emotiva amp owner who is toying with the idea of picking up a used Odyssey amp to hear how it compares in my rig (and of course if I like what I hear, who knows where things will go). I've seen in a few places mention of SE board upgrades to the Stratos (e.g. there is a listing on audiogon right now for a Stratos Plus with SE board upgrade). The only mention of this that I found on the Odyssey webpage was toward the bottom of the Stratos section the line "Special SE and SE + versions with up to 52 different board modifications available"

Can someone clarify what an SE board upgrade refers to on a Stratos amp? While I'd be interested in knowing hardware differences alone, opinions regarding sonic differences with/without SE board are also welcome.

Many thanks!

lazydays

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Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #1 on: 3 May 2013, 04:09 pm »
actually I think there are three different boards, and what order they are, I don't remember. There is a red board, a green board, and the double thickness board. I'd be looking for a standard pair of monoblocks, and have them upgraded to the glass ceiling mode. You'll not be dissappointed!
gary

JCarney

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Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #2 on: 3 May 2013, 04:14 pm »
I believe this the order. Green board, standard Stratos. Red board, mono extreme. Black board, glass ceiling.

JCarney

Thunder240

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Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #3 on: 3 May 2013, 10:27 pm »
Thanks for the explanation. A pair of monos are probably above my budget unless I happen to find a great deal, but I'll keep you guys posted. I love that Odyssey offers an upgrade path -- it means I can buy a base (or near base model) now on my current budget and grow into the amp that I really want. More manufacturers should do this!

smata67

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Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #4 on: 3 May 2013, 11:16 pm »
The khartago mono extremes that are on there for about the same price as the stratos you are talking about would be the way to go, hands down.

danny01

Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #5 on: 5 May 2013, 10:28 pm »
I am also currently using Emotiva amps, specifically UPA-1's. I have been looking into the Khartago. The Odyssey site is very vague about the specs, especially what the Plus and Extreme upgrades entail. I've read around the forums, but it is all confusing. What are the differences among the three? Under the regular Khartago description it says 120,000uF capacitance, but under the Plus description it says an additional 60,000uF for a total of 120,000uF. Do the upgrades put out more power? Are the Plus or Extreme the same as the Stratos? I saw a post regarding someone who had a pair of Khartago, but said they were Stratos in Khartago cases. Which one uses the Kismet board? Is there a way to add 12V triggers? Confused!

I will be pairing with a Parasound 2100 preamp connected to amps via high pass outputs(80hz) and 4 ohm Selah speakers and listen at around 90db most of the time. My main goal in switching out the Emotiva monos are to get rid of the top end edginess and maybe a bit more midrange clarity. Form factor is important. I cannot fit two Stratos cases, but the Khartago cases are perfect. If I decide to get a Khartago Stereo Extreme can it be converted to a mono extreme later on if I decide to get another? If I buy regular Khartago mono's can they be upgraded (to Extreme or the ones with Kismet boards)? Does it cost substantially more to upgrade rather than just buying the better amps in the first place?

Also what is the "glass ceiling" upgrade? Does it refer to the top of the amp case? That would be cool to look at, like a Levinson 434!

I appreciate any help.

Randy

Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #6 on: 6 May 2013, 12:03 am »

Also what is the "glass ceiling" upgrade? Does it refer to the top of the amp case? That would be cool to look at, like a Levinson 434!

I appreciate any help.
[/quote]

"Glass ceiling" has nothing to do with a glass top. You are being too literal. It refers to another level of upgrade on the internals of Odyssey amps.

klaus@odyssey

Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #7 on: 6 May 2013, 01:23 am »
Well,  yes, the specs are indeed quite vague, on purpose...I have not been a single day out of at least a 3 weeks back order since January 2001  !!!!!!  What I learned with making over 5,000 amps since then is that because every amp is pretty much build to order, I am able to customize the hell out of the units,  making it very special for every customer, if I can get some corner stats about his / her systems...And this has been UNBELIEVABLY successful so far.  And in that I mean the fantastic feedback and true gratefulness of many of my customers....So,  now I can customize the amps in literally dozens of different ways...It would be impossible to state all of the different upgrade paths on the web site without it being super confusing.  Rather, I'd like to take my time and talk with every customer a bit first, to see where the budget, system synergy, and taste trends to.  Then, and only then can I go into the Nitty Gritty of specific tweaks....

As for the heritage of our boards,  here it is:

1998 introduction with Green Boards via OEM manufacturer
2002 still Green Boards,  but in house manufacturing
2005 introduction of Red Boards.  Many upgrades, thus "new" generational start with the color of the boards
2009 introduction of the Black Boards,  which are the reference boards for the Kismet designs.....started final developments of the Kismets.


As for the regular red boards vs. the SE boards (for the most part, in general,  but as I said, many versions out there) the SE and SE+ boards have many of the parts upgrades of the Kismet boards.
It took me over 3 years to mess around and develop and mature the Kismets....During that time,  I outfitted many red boards with some of these upgrades, and to be honest,  I received a ton of fantastic feedback from my customers,  which helped me big time....As for the Glass Ceilings,  or the Full Gary amps,  this is terminology that has been coined by some guys on the Forums,  not me.  The Full Gary was by a customer (not Lazydays, some other Gary) who started to make his own tweaks,  first by me making some amps to his specs,  and then he himself going crazy....Never heard the final versions,  so I have no idea here....With the Glass Ceiling,  this is actually a term that Lazydays came up with.  He also wanted to have his amps tweaked,  so I obliged.  In this version,  I believe there are 6 pairs of GC's out there.
Ultimately,  newer amps especially with the SE+ which have the reference caps and the TS Premium cables, are quite a bit better than the GC's,  as they are closer to the Kismets.  All of the different mods and stages were designed to get to the ultimate summit of this design,  KISMET.....


What does that all mean ??? Who knows, and really up to you.  If you're happy with your system,  then you are there, regardless of what specs you have.  And to be brutally honest,  I have heard our old amps sound better in a couple of systems than the tweaked ones....why???? Synergy, synergy, synergy...even though the newer ones obviously spank the old ones 99 % of the time.

AND  !!!!!  Never forget about the correct bias (ours or other amps for that matter).   Supremely important,  and can make a good amp sound mediocre if out of whack.  I believe we are the only manufacturer in N. America who actually asks the customer to go to work when ordering an amp, and measuring his/her voltage over aperiod of time,  so that we are able to 1.  correctly set the bias, with or without custom biasing for a specific speaker,  and 2.  Keep that bias 100 % correct because we can nail down the bias on the exact voltage that the customer has.  Bias is directly depending upon Voltage, so, if it goes higher or lower than the Voltage where we sat the amp up,  so does the Bias.  US average is 119.6 Volts,  but lately we have seen higher and higher averages from our customers measurements.   Anyway,  I am very proud of the 100 % customer service in every regard, and the 100 % customization available for each taste, electrical, and system....

Now,  as for tweaks that our customers do (and there are a lot of them due to the sheer number of amps), this is dicey,  but again, if the customer is happy,  cool.   Just a little uncool when selling the amps used as "upgraded".  As with every design, (if the design is basically solid and if the designer has some good ears) the final results of the sound of an amplifier is like a puzzle.  You have to put the parts together correctly.  Different designs, different results, obviously.  EG. the Black Gate caps and the now defunct reference, ultra expensive and rare Panasonic tops had a world class reputation.  Incredibly good. However,  in our amps it simply didn't work.  By themselves or in combination to each other.  To make it short,  the BG's took out some  bass definition,  and the Pan's had some restricted sound staging in the outer corners.  Again,  very small differences, but nevertheless there,  which, when designing your upgrades and when intimately familiar with the feel and sound of your babies, is a bad thing....

I also learned something about myself, in that I am unable to listen for more than 10 - 15 minutes.  I mean really, really listen before you're going cookoo.....

Hope that this helps you guys out,

Klaus

Thunder240

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 50
Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #8 on: 6 May 2013, 04:56 am »
Thanks to everyone for the responses, and especially Klaus for chiming in -- very helpful.

TAULISA

Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #9 on: 6 May 2013, 10:49 am »
Klaus states:
So,  now I can customize the amps in literally dozens of different ways...It would be impossible to state all of the different upgrade paths on the web site without it being super confusing.  Rather, I'd like to take my time and talk with every customer a bit first, to see where the budget, system synergy, and taste trends to.  Then, and only then can I go into the Nitty Gritty of specific tweaks....

With all due respect I never thought Klaus would customize his amps like our professional pizza makers in Italy without menus....
Same job ! All you gotta do is talk things over and specify budget, taste and most important ingredients and then you get your delicious pizza whose name is unknown !
Just kidding !
Seriously talking I believe most people have been expecting over the years family series of mono blocks being developed so far featuring related technical features, special options to be selected upon request and most importantly identity name and price
of each specified model !

Toby



lazydays

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1365
Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #10 on: 6 May 2013, 06:03 pm »
Well,  yes, the specs are indeed quite vague, on purpose...I have not been a single day out of at least a 3 weeks back order since January 2001  !!!!!!  What I learned with making over 5,000 amps since then is that because every amp is pretty much build to order, I am able to customize the hell out of the units,  making it very special for every customer, if I can get some corner stats about his / her systems...And this has been UNBELIEVABLY successful so far.  And in that I mean the fantastic feedback and true gratefulness of many of my customers....So,  now I can customize the amps in literally dozens of different ways...It would be impossible to state all of the different upgrade paths on the web site without it being super confusing.  Rather, I'd like to take my time and talk with every customer a bit first, to see where the budget, system synergy, and taste trends to.  Then, and only then can I go into the Nitty Gritty of specific tweaks....

As for the heritage of our boards,  here it is:

1998 introduction with Green Boards via OEM manufacturer
2002 still Green Boards,  but in house manufacturing
2005 introduction of Red Boards.  Many upgrades, thus "new" generational start with the color of the boards
2009 introduction of the Black Boards,  which are the reference boards for the Kismet designs.....started final developments of the Kismets.


As for the regular red boards vs. the SE boards (for the most part, in general,  but as I said, many versions out there) the SE and SE+ boards have many of the parts upgrades of the Kismet boards.
It took me over 3 years to mess around and develop and mature the Kismets....During that time,  I outfitted many red boards with some of these upgrades, and to be honest,  I received a ton of fantastic feedback from my customers,  which helped me big time....As for the Glass Ceilings,  or the Full Gary amps,  this is terminology that has been coined by some guys on the Forums,  not me.  The Full Gary was by a customer (not Lazydays, some other Gary) who started to make his own tweaks,  first by me making some amps to his specs,  and then he himself going crazy....Never heard the final versions,  so I have no idea here....With the Glass Ceiling,  this is actually a term that Lazydays came up with.  He also wanted to have his amps tweaked,  so I obliged.  In this version,  I believe there are 6 pairs of GC's out there.
Ultimately,  newer amps especially with the SE+ which have the reference caps and the TS Premium cables, are quite a bit better than the GC's,  as they are closer to the Kismets.  All of the different mods and stages were designed to get to the ultimate summit of this design,  KISMET.....


What does that all mean ??? Who knows, and really up to you.  If you're happy with your system,  then you are there, regardless of what specs you have.  And to be brutally honest,  I have heard our old amps sound better in a couple of systems than the tweaked ones....why???? Synergy, synergy, synergy...even though the newer ones obviously spank the old ones 99 % of the time.

AND  !!!!!  Never forget about the correct bias (ours or other amps for that matter).   Supremely important,  and can make a good amp sound mediocre if out of whack.  I believe we are the only manufacturer in N. America who actually asks the customer to go to work when ordering an amp, and measuring his/her voltage over aperiod of time,  so that we are able to 1.  correctly set the bias, with or without custom biasing for a specific speaker,  and 2.  Keep that bias 100 % correct because we can nail down the bias on the exact voltage that the customer has.  Bias is directly depending upon Voltage, so, if it goes higher or lower than the Voltage where we sat the amp up,  so does the Bias.  US average is 119.6 Volts,  but lately we have seen higher and higher averages from our customers measurements.   Anyway,  I am very proud of the 100 % customer service in every regard, and the 100 % customization available for each taste, electrical, and system....

Now,  as for tweaks that our customers do (and there are a lot of them due to the sheer number of amps), this is dicey,  but again, if the customer is happy,  cool.   Just a little uncool when selling the amps used as "upgraded".  As with every design, (if the design is basically solid and if the designer has some good ears) the final results of the sound of an amplifier is like a puzzle.  You have to put the parts together correctly.  Different designs, different results, obviously.  EG. the Black Gate caps and the now defunct reference, ultra expensive and rare Panasonic tops had a world class reputation.  Incredibly good. However,  in our amps it simply didn't work.  By themselves or in combination to each other.  To make it short,  the BG's took out some  bass definition,  and the Pan's had some restricted sound staging in the outer corners.  Again,  very small differences, but nevertheless there,  which, when designing your upgrades and when intimately familiar with the feel and sound of your babies, is a bad thing....

I also learned something about myself, in that I am unable to listen for more than 10 - 15 minutes.  I mean really, really listen before you're going cookoo.....

Hope that this helps you guys out,

Klaus

one minor correction. The term "glass ceiling" was yours when you turned around to me and said there was nothing more you could do to the amps and this was the glass ceiling. I also remember you telling me about the so called "Gary" version that you said you'd never do again! Seems like it was just yesterday even though it's been a few years now.
gary

klaus@odyssey

Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #11 on: 8 May 2013, 06:25 am »
Man,  you have better memory than I do...then again,  what do they say about old elephants,  hehehehehe.....Either way, GC is not an official term.
As for Pizza, there is no place like Italy...Best pizza in my life is a tie,  1 x in Cittadella 5 years ago,  and the other was in Foggia,  a long time ago.  Coincidentally,  both hand made in Italy...
How about some amps hand made in the USA without any Chinese on the menu......

TAULISA

Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #12 on: 8 May 2013, 10:18 am »
How about some amps hand made in the USA without any Chinese on the menu......

Don't worry ! Things are changing !

A growing number of American companies are leaving the country, rethinking their decisions to outsource over the past decade. It's been dubbed the insourcing boom and big names like GE and Whirlpool are among those moving some of their operations back to the USA.

Click here:   http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3733465.htm

Toby

Toby


lazydays

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Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #13 on: 8 May 2013, 06:36 pm »
what bugs the hell out of me is that I can't buy a U.S. made CD player! If Honda decided to sell a CD player, I'd bet the farm they could build it right here. Klaus will tell you that except for my turntables and CD player, it has made in USA on everything. Even the cables! I have a pair of Dennis Had built speakers sitting in my loft with no serious amp to drive them (they were designed for 3 to 5 watt amps). Tell me who makes a 20 watt amp in the USA now that sounds like tubes or is a tube amp? I'd be happy with a 15 watt amp that was of the same quality as a Stratos! Yes there is a market for a quality low wattage solid state amp that will handle some of the high impedence loads from speakers setup for tube amps.

well I got the days bitch off my chest!
gary

pavment

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  • Posts: 25
Re: newbie question -- what does "SE board" refer to?
« Reply #14 on: 1 Jul 2013, 05:59 am »
If thread is still alive, my Stratos HT-3 is blowing fuses left and right when turning on. Having said that, I wonder if the red board also means more layers or the standard 6 - 12 layers for power applications with more than 1 oz copper in addition to upgraded caps and resistors?