[Ron]

  Need some feedback opinions or comments from fellow Audio Circle members regarding my speaker cabinet finishing ideas.
I have been an active participant on the Audio Circle forum for a number of years. During this time I have built quite a few GR
Research speaker systems for myself and others. Most all the cabinets I have built were finished in real wood veneer, mainly
cherry or red oak. Within the next couple of weeks I will be building a pair of fully performance upgraded X-LS Encores. Recently,
Captainhemo ( Jay), Lacro (Larry), and Magma posted threads showing their newly built X-LS Encores which had a round over on
all the edges and the cabinets were painted in lieu of veneered. All three (3) cabinets looked great in my opinion as well as the
opinion of others. Seeing their speakers inspired me to consider finish the X-LS Encores I will be building by painting in lieu of veneering.
What I am considering is painting them a bright red with white racing stripes similar  to the way Magma finish his, or possibly bright yellow
with black racing stripes. My son has a bright red Shelby GT500 Cobra Mustang with white racing stripes that looks really cool. I would
think that speakers finished this way would appeal to car racing fans or car enthusiast in a " Man Cave" home audio system setup. Another
possibility that should appeal to the avid sports fans would be to paint the speakers in their favorite team color and possibly put the team Logo's
on the side of the sides of the cabinet. Since I would be building to sell, I could finish them however someone would want them.

I would appreciate your opinion and comments ( positive or negative) as to whether my ideas are good or bad. At least the speakers would look unique.

Ron

[Captainhemo]

Hey Ron,
As you  know,  I like the ideas  you  mentioned.    I think the yellow  w black racing stripes would look   really  sharp  but  have a feeling the red/white combo is going  to be the popular choice.  The team colors are also a really good idea.
looking forward to following the build thread  and  seeing  the final result,  they are going to loolk cool 

-jay

[PDR]

Ron, go for it. With your level of skill theyre gonna look great.

My first build was a pair of towers 30 yrs ago, I veneered them.
I built a set of arrays about 4 yrs ago, veneered the sides and painted the front
baffle black...it had a round over.
My V-1s were veneer and paint, the super v are just paint.
Personally I prefer the paint look, but thats just me.
I'm building a garage this year and I want to set up for paint.
Like I say, with your skills theyll be beautiful I'm sure.

[lacro]

Ron,
 After pondering your idea for awhile, I think you should consider a few things. The amount of time and effort required to get a "quality" finish may make it difficult to make an acceptable margin when you sell.

 I assume any bright colors like red, blue, yellow, white, etc. would be finished in a gloss. This type finish will hide no sins, and requires numerous steps of applying finish,  sanding, polishing, and waxing. In comparison to painting with a dull bed liner type finish, or even a matte finish, the time required may be 10 fold! 

 I suggest you build a set of painted stands and see how much effort it takes to get the finish you want.  The stands would allow you to try different finishes, and techniques before doing the speakers.

 Whatever you decide, please do lots of photos.

Larry

 

 

[Ron]

  Thanks guys for your input and help so far regarding my question about painting my X-LS Encore cabinets. Larry, I agree with you that painting the cabinets in a bright, glossy finish would be very labor intensive. I plan to experiment first on some sample pieces of MDF and see how it goes. If I can't get the desired type finish I will probably end up just veneering in cherry.

Ron

[Captainhemo]

I'd just add,  as I'm sure you guys already know,   how well the joints are originally done plays a huge part  in how  much  prep is required to get a good finish.  When I did my  sub and my N3 TL's (my first 2 builds)  my  joints  were not  great and required quite a bit of  work to  get decent.  Surprisingly , the  spray on bed liner does not hide  the seams well at all.  It goes on very thin  and although it does  dry with a texture,  it will not  cover seams if they are  not  done well.   I actually  don't use the bed liner to   "hide" stuff, I  just really  like the textured look it provides.  Now the roll on stuff  is much thicker and probably  would hide stuff,  but it   does not   resemble   the texture of the spray on stuff at all.

When I  did  the X LS Encores for my niece,  I made a real effort to impove on the joints.  The effort paid off and not too much prep work was needed to get a good painted finish  .  If I woiuld have had a bit more time,they'd have been even better but I  had just returned from  having my transplant and had to have them done by Xmas
 They were painted with Behr Premium Primer/Paint  ,  blcok sanded  and then  cleared with minwax.  While not the  super high gloss "piano" type finsh youi achieved Larry, they still turned out  pretty good with  very minimal prep work... again reenfocing the importance  of  working at creating good joints.




Each build I have done,  the joints have  improved and made the need for  extensive filling and sanding less and less. 
Larry,  I'm sure as you do more and more builds  you'll also find less  prep work required  to get that  amazing finish you   achieved with your last build.

Ron, I've seen  a lot of your previous build pics and know   how  great they turn out  including some  painted cabinets/stands.  I'm sure whatever way  you decide to go, these will turn out  equally as good.
Like Larry siad,   take lots of pictures and   pst  em here for  us to admire

-jay

[Ron]

  Thanks Jay for your comments. You are absolutely correct that the better the joints are the less prep work
is required to get a good finish. I have some ideas on how to minimize the prep work to achieve the best finish
that I will be experimenting with next week. Once I have found a method that satisfies me, I will start posting instructions and  pictures for everyone to see during the cabinet finishing process. Hopefully I can find a fairly easy and effective method that will give the smooth, high gloss finish that I want to achieve. Still leaning toward doing the cabinets in bright, gloss red with white racing stripes. Hopefully they will look cool and unique.

Ron

[HAL]

Ron,
Finished like the X-LS Encores in this thread about 1/2 way down the page:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109969.0

[Ron]

Hal,

  They look very similar to what I would like to do except the shade of red I want to use would be a lighter. Also, I plan to use a 1" wide racing stripe down the center with 1/2" wide whites on both sides of the 1" stripe. How do you think that would look?

Thanks,
Ron

[lacro]

Ron,
 I guess your committed to painting!  You haven't mentioned whether you are going to use epoxy to seal and harden the MDF. If you are going that route which I highly recommend, you should also consider using thickened epoxy as the glue for the panels. Doing so will absolutely assure the seams will never show.
 Also, get some micro balloons to mix with epoxy so you can make an easy sanding filler for leveling and filling any divots. This will sand similar to Bondo.
 Are you planning to spray the paint or brush? If you are going to brush, I highly recommend Interlux Brighsides marine paint. This paint is self leveling, and looks like it was sprayed, no brush or roller strokes show through. 2-3 coats and you could be done or you could go to wet sanding/buffing if not satisfied with the finish. This paint has lots of pigment and builds quickly, and leaves a beautiful gloss finish. You can also spray it. Works great over epoxy too. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=64&familyName=Interlux+Brightside+Polyurethane

$.02

Larry
 

[HAL]

Sounds good to me!  Looking forward to the pictures.

[Saturn94]

Hi Ron.

I'm looking forward to following this thread and seeing how this project turns out. 

[Mark Korda]

Hi Ron, Lacro is right! I am a painter, houses interior,exterior. Every year a freind of mine takes his lobster boat out of the water so we can give it the once over. We do the bottom keel with red bottom paint that retards plant growth that slows the boat down. On the upper hull we use a marine paint by the same people I think that make Interlux, the paint company Pettit. They make an epoxy type paint called Easy Poxy. It's oil based. The first time we tried it we knew we needed a quick lesson. Rolling it on with a 1/4 inch roller cover left some little bubbles. An old hand at the boat yard showed us how to chase it with a brush after rolling it on. I would roll it on with a mini roller,short nap,not foam,but a foam roller might work. Then my freind takes a dry brush and follows my rolling,(chasing) and smooths every thing out with a light feathering motion. We did sand the sheen off the old coat first with 150 grit or finer. The result after 1 coat was a fantasic finish,gloss,that you could see your reflection in. We used Jade Green like Kelly or Forest Green. They have various shades of red. A quart goes a long way.(http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1329). There are some You Tube videos that might help on using it. The old lobster boat we finished was the best looking boat in the yard,my freinds words,although all the other yachts were still covered with shrink rap. I'm going to use it on a pair of Dynaco's to get a grand piano finish,(black). I would check with Pettit's instructions for a primer when used on wood.If I find out first I will re write this post........Mark Korda

[Ron]

  Thanks for the helpful info Mark and Larry!  So it sounds like using an epoxy glue on the joints and epoxy to seal the MDF and then using an epoxy type marine paint might be the best way to go. Since I don't have a spray gun, the epoxy would have to be either rolled or brushed on.  I will definitely check this out.

Ron

[Mark Korda]

Hi Ron, I didn't spray.The Easypoxy flattens out like nothing else. I would say 2 coats maximum with a little sanding inbetween. We only used 1 coat but it was over last years coat.This stuff does not leave any brush marks even though you chase the roller with a brush. As far as waxing,we didn't because it looked like glass,an after all it is a lobster boat,a working boat,not a yacht. I'm interviewing for a job at a marine store this Tuesday. If I get the job I'll get that paint at half price. If not I'm getting a quart anyway and I will take step by step pictures for any one to see. I like your idea of sports car colors. I'm going to powder coat some Dyna Mark3 chassis that are a little rusty with an orange I call (McLaren Orange)..the same color of Bruce McLaren's Can-Am sports car. With the brown cages and orange chassis these Dyna's might look like there a Cleveland Browns fan amps....take care Ron...Mark Korda.

[bdp24]

Ron,
 I guess your committed to painting!  You haven't mentioned whether you are going to use epoxy to seal and harden the MDF. If you are going that route which I highly recommend, you should also consider using thickened epoxy as the glue for the panels. Doing so will absolutely assure the seams will never show.
 Also, get some micro balloons to mix with epoxy so you can make an easy sanding filler for leveling and filling any divots. This will sand similar to Bondo.
 Are you planning to spray the paint or brush? If you are going to brush, I highly recommend Interlux Brighsides marine paint. This paint is self leveling, and looks like it was sprayed, no brush or roller strokes show through. 2-3 coats and you could be done or you could go to wet sanding/buffing if not satisfied with the finish. This paint has lots of pigment and builds quickly, and leaves a beautiful gloss finish. You can also spray it. Works great over epoxy too. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=64&familyName=Interlux+Brightside+Polyurethane

$.02

Larry
 

Great info Larry and Mark! Any recommendation of a specific epoxy to seal MDF with? I was going to use either Deft Lacquer Sanding Sealer spray or Zinsser Shellac Sealer spray to use under oil-based paint, but if epoxy is better I'll use it instead. Thanks---Eric.

[Mark Korda]

Hi Ron,I just got a lesson on Easypoxy on YouTube. I went to Google and entered (Pettit Easypoxy). A few great lessons on how to use pop up from YouTube. There are 2 from Jamestown,the company who sells Pettit. The title was (Pettit Easypoxy Topside Paint)...one and two. It has a gray haired guy with wire rim glasses and a blue wool vest teaching how to. It is simple to follow. Chasing the roller with a brush is explained. It's called rolling and tipping. The tipping was done with a throwaway foam brush,you'll see. On the second video,to answer your question; On new wood here is what to do.1. Apply Pettit clear sealer. 2. After drying apply Pettit white undercoater. 3. After drying apply Pettit Easypoxy and if you watch the videos I just told you you will know how to brush and tip so well that not only will your speakers look like a million bucks you might get a job painting painting a schooner. Pettit sells all the paint products I just listed. I live in Portland Maine and there are stores and boat yards to get it. But you can get it thru the net just as easy. Watch those 2 short videos and I'll exspect a book report! I also learned what I must do to prep my speakers before painting....take care Ron......Mark Korda

[Captainhemo]

Awesome info guys   
Going to watch  those vids   right now

-jay

[lacro]

They make an epoxy type paint called Easy Poxy.

Hi Mark,
 Just to clarify, Easy Poxy is not epoxy it's actually a Polyurethane. It along with Brightsides are some of the most popular marine paints, and they both perform equally as well. I have used both, and personally I prefer Brighsides because I find it easier to keep a wet edge, but the difference is minimal. If I could buy either at a discount to the other, I wouldn't hesitate, they are that close.

 For a first timer, I would recommend Brightsides, for the above reason. Also, I recommend you try Brightsides, and compare the results. I think you will find they are both great paints that leave a beautiful finish.
 
 I do use a couple different thinners (small amount) to retard drying depending on temp/humidity of the day. I strain each batch, and roll & tip (foam brush) as you describe.

 Last April I helped a friend paint a Red fiberglass canoe that was in need of help. It had some deep gouges that we fixed with thickened epoxy, and lots of scratches. The whole boat was wet sanded fairly smooth with 220. The boat was painted with white over red, no transition primer was used. The very first coat almost completely covered the red... amazing

 I left him to finish the boat himself with another helper doing roll/tip method. The second coat completely covered the canoe like it was sprayed on. It looked like a fresh gelcoat. There were not sanding scratches showing or brush strokes. The Brightsides levels beautifully as does Easy Poxy. Quality marine enamels are pricey, but cover with less coats than cheaper paints. Painting his red canoe white without using a primer took less than a quart.

 Whether it's worth the expense to Ron for a one off is his decision. however compared to automotive paint, marine enamel is cheap! Another consideration is color. Ron may not find the red he is looking for with either Brightsides or Easy Poxy. IMO the Brightsides RED is beyond belief beautiful!!, but I think Ron is looking for something lighter.

 Whatever Ron decides to use for a finish, I am sure it will be spectacular! I look forward to seeing this build progress..

Larry

[lacro]

Great info Larry and Mark! Any recommendation of a specific epoxy to seal MDF with? I was going to use either Deft Lacquer Sanding Sealer spray or Zinsser Shellac Sealer spray to use under oil-based paint, but if epoxy is better I'll use it instead. Thanks---Eric.

 Eric,
 Using epoxy to seal/harden MDF isn't something that is very common. the reason I did is I am familiar with using it, and I had it available. Working with epoxy isn't difficult, however, there is a learning curve.
 
 The reason I like it is it hardened the MDF which made it similar to a hardwood, and seals the seams from showing. Also, it builds much quicker than other finishes. The coating you plan to use should work just fine. Epoxy is just one way to finish MDF. There are many tried and true methods available.

 I will be building a center channel soon, and I will document the epoxy process in detail
so others can decide it is something they want to try.

Larry