[medium jim]

If you were in the market for a Sub and had a budget of $1000.00, what would you end up with?  It is open to new and used, but if used, it must be something that is easily found. The goal is to compile a nice list from those with first hand experience.  Most important, why you like it.

Thanks a bunch,
Jim

[cujobob]

Chase home theater is the place to go for subs IMHO. They don't look fancy finish-wise but they use great drivers, good amps, reach deep, high output, and the sound quality is terrific. They're developing a new 15" sub that will be a great compromise of size, price, output and sound quality. The 18" subs are rather big but they measure incredibly well.


OB or sealed servo subs are nice, too. I have a dual driver OB servo sub from GR Research/Rhythmik but I'm not sure if those are even offered still.

[kgturner]

I'm looking for dual subs at $1k each for music only. Right now, I've got my eye on dual Rythmik F12G-SE subs.

Kevin T

[hayden]

Hsu, Powersound Audio, or for more $ look into Seaton Sound or JTR.

[James Romeyn]

Four of the best subs @ $250ea surely outperforms any $1k sub.  I don't see any reason why you can't follow the setup advice at my website. 

Besides setup, if the subs are matched (they don't need be) and if they are high-Q, you must slightly stagger the Q among them.  Four matched high-Q subs is incompatible with the goal of flattening bass modes, i.e. introducing four new random modes to dilute the room's natural modes. 

Slightly altering Q is fairly easy.  For reflex subs, slightly stagger port lengths.  Another easier method is to fasten small but staggered masses of rope putty to active cone and/or passive radiator if so equipped.  Split the mass of putty into three or four parts and fasten in symmetrical array as close to the center of the cone as possible to evenly distribute the weight.

Because I'm so tuned in to lack of modal effects in the bass range, the worst possible offense to me is uneven bass.  Frequency response aberration is bad enough but the worst effect timing distortion: bass waves bounce between boundaries while the note should have stopped and the next bass note appeared.  In this case, an excruciating common occurrence in domestic audio, two discordant bass notes are audible where there should be one.  It's many multiples worse than a bassist being slightly out of tune.  A better analogy is an unwelcome drunk and incompetent bass player playing wrong notes while the other bass player plays perfectly.  If you are musician this is easy to imagine.  If not, think of driving in straight line with maximum pressure on the brake and throttle pedals.  Lots of noise for strange effect.     

What I just described is the prime difference between sound in a commercial space and sound in a domestic space.  Bass in the former is completely integrated with the rest of the spectrum above it.  Bass sounds natural and there is no discrepancy between bass and the music above it.  Notice it next time you visit a movie theater.  Go home and notice how the bass seems to stay inside the speaker boxes and bass sounds like it is in a different plane from the mid/treble.  They sound disjointed from each other.   

EQ can not fix this timing error because the error occurs in three dimensional space.  Because EQ correction is static and non-dynamic it can not "fix" the room, only one location.  You can average out multiple locations, but this only minimizes benefit at any one location.  Also, properly leveling an extreme null can require multiple thousands of watts.

Do any recording studios brag loudly how much EQ they employ for proper playback response in their control room?  I didn't think so.     

This is the difference between easy and proper pitch differentiation in the bass range vs. difficulty discerning whether one bass note is higher or lower in pitch vs. another.       

Depending on pitch interval I estimate resulting distortion can easily be in the hundreds of percent.  To say it destroys the coherence of the musical gestalt is extreme understatement.

Four proper subs properly installed will equal or exceed the musical delight of several thousands of dollars in bass acoustic treatment.  I know because my last room had the equivalent of about $7k in treatment including a 3-sided acoustic soffit.  Plans alone, by acoustic engineer, for treatment in that room cost $750.           

[4krow]

This is something I have not thought of before. Could a desirable effect be done with two subs?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

 For music, not HT, I second the Rhytmik but I also like some of the non ported SVS and HSU subs, Martin Logan subs the original dynamo and dynamo 1000, a used Grotto I, some of the Velodyne SPL subs or DD subs.  I would love to find a used REL Britannia which is my favorite.  I have not been impressed with the sub $1K REL subs.

I like the nice tight musical bass that these subs produce.  And they can integrate well with Magnepans.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Oops, double post

[Rclark]

Epic Legend, wow, what an awesome sub. I bought mine used and some of these subs had a bit of an amplifier problem, but man do they sound amazing. In fact, they sound so good that even if the amp situation is never permanently rectified, I would still want more of them. I'd simply buy more of them used and power them with something else. Somehow, some way.

I hope more subwoofer manufacturers explore the dual opposed, sealed box design, because it has so many advantages and just sounds incredible. This is just musical and fast and greasy, a real joy to listen to.

I believe the manufacturer has been able to rectify the situation and is producing backlog. Either way, WOW, what a sub. Blends with my Maggies like a dream and gives you that punch in the chest the maggies won't. It sounds like they were made to work together, honestly. Like that HSU MBM. I've never heard that, but it's the same effect with this sub. Anyway, I have it good with this pairing. Or, had. Waiting for a replacement amp on my used sub. Luckily my speakers already make plenty of bass.

But even with that issue, and it's the only hardware issue I've had with audio so far, I still want more of them. While it was working for those several months (lol), I was amazed by it.

It sounded so good I actually sometimes shut off my speakers just to hear my sub play. I hope that is a good endorsement.

[neekomax]

Epic Legend, wow, what an awesome sub. I bought mine used and some of these subs had a bit of an amplifier problem, but man do they sound amazing. In fact, they sound so good that even if the amp situation is never permanently rectified, I would still want more of them. I'd simply buy more of them used and power them with something else. Somehow, some way.

I hope more subwoofer manufacturers explore the dual opposed, sealed box design, because it has so many advantages and just sounds incredible. This is just musical and fast and greasy, a real joy to listen to.

I believe the manufacturer has been able to rectify the situation and is producing backlog. Either way, WOW, what a sub. Blends with my Maggies like a dream and gives you that punch in the chest the maggies won't. It sounds like they were made to work together, honestly. Like that HSU MBM. I've never heard that, but it's the same effect with this sub. Anyway, I have it good with this pairing. Or, had. Waiting for a replacement amp on my used sub. Luckily my speakers already make plenty of bass.

But even with that issue, and it's the only hardware issue I've had with audio so far, I still want more of them. While it was working for those several months (lol), I was amazed by it.

It sounded so good I actually sometimes shut off my speakers just to hear my sub play. I hope that is a good endorsement.

That does seem like a sweet sub. I've been considering that one, or the SVS SB-100, which is a also a sealed 12" 300 watt jammy, although only one driver. The advantage of the SVS would be... that you can buy one  .

The Epik legend seems like it's been 'sold out' for as long as I've been aware of them. Not sure what that's about. If I were running a subwoofer company, I would want to make sure we had, you know, some subs around to sell.

[Rclark]

He's been around for a while, I don't think he's going anywhere. I think they run a skeleton crew right now, is what's going on. They're on Facebook, he does answer questions and emails, so I think he's just producing backlog.

Says he's also working on new designs as well. Dual opposed of course. D.O. is great. I mean you could just take a single driver, and then build a crazy enclosure for it, titanium bracing, sand filling, box within box, all these things to reduce vibration and kill the back wave...

Or you could just build a simple enclosure with a second driver on the other side... It's almost funny. No, it is.

[medium jim]

This is something I have not thought of before. Could a desirable effect be done with two subs?

Two or more subs is the way to go as you smooth out nasty room issues and get better bass.  I would rather have two small subs than one medium or big sized one.

It is also easier to integrate multiple subs.

Jim

[Guidof]

"The best" I will not say. . .

But personally, I'm very happy with my REL T1 (for music), which integrates well with my Martin-Logan SL3 hybrid electrostatics, a difficult to achieve goal with this type of speakers.

Guido F.

[Austin08]

Rythmik is the first thing came up on my mind. Good value, excellent performance and first rated customer . support.

[medium jim]

I personally like B&W subs, very fast and musical and many are under $1000.00, both new and on the used market.  They're built well and rarely have amp failures which is the bane of most affordable subs.  Mine are 6 years old and still pump it out. 

Jim

[Brad]

He's been around for a while, I don't think he's going anywhere. I think they run a skeleton crew right now, is what's going on. They're on Facebook, he does answer questions and emails, so I think he's just producing backlog.

Says he's also working on new designs as well. Dual opposed of course. D.O. is great. I mean you could just take a single driver, and then build a crazy enclosure for it, titanium bracing, sand filling, box within box, all these things to reduce vibration and kill the back wave...

Or you could just build a simple enclosure with a second driver on the other side... It's almost funny. No, it is.

Epik most definitely does not reply to emails, at least not mine.   

Jim Romeyn's idea above of multiple subs looks very interesting - similar to Duke L's "Swarm" I guess.

[geowak]

I like the HSU subs very much. IMHO

[Rclark]

Epik most definitely does not reply to emails, at least not mine.   

Jim Romeyn's idea above of multiple subs looks very interesting - similar to Duke L's "Swarm" I guess.

He's pretty swamped I think. He's very responsive on Facebook, that seems to he the best way right now. I made a post about not being able to get him on the phone and he answered me that day.

[DaveC113]

I've heard several of the Hsu subs and they all sucked for music except for the top of the line sealed 15" which was good.

[DS-21]

Rythmik is the first thing came up on my mind. Good value, excellent performance and first rated customer . support.

Rythmiks make IMO a bad compromise: they compromise top-end bandwidth for lower ULF distortion. Problem is, people aren't that sensitive to ULF distortion, but the ability to play high (150-200Hz) makes integration much less difficult.

My pick in the sub-1k price class is the SVS SB12-NSD. See the linked post for a full discussion, but the bottom line is that it uses an extraordinary driver (Peerless XXLS), is flat to 200Hz, is well-built, and you can't build an XXLS-based sub for what SVS charges if you value your time at all.