Cheap but superb SPDIF cable

john dozier · « **Reply #20 on:** 8 Apr 2013, 06:49 pm »

Replacing all RCAs with BNCs assumes some (maybe a lot) of ability to modify equipment. Sometimes its easy, sometimes it's tough. Depends on whether the RCAs are board mounted or have flying leads. In either case, it is well worth the effort. Regards (you must know someone who is a tech type who can help)

john dozier · « **Reply #21 on:** 8 Apr 2013, 07:07 pm »

On length, Martin Collums suggest as short as possible, Guido Tent says 30 inches, others suggest from 1.5m to 25 feet. All of these are known figures in the hi-end audio community. What does the circle suggest? Anyone done any listening test with the same cable in differ lengths? Do the receiving and transmitting circuits make a difference? Is there no one solution and it is dependent upon the source and decoder? A few questions to ponder for those of a philosophical bent. Regards

brother love · « **Reply #22 on:** 8 Apr 2013, 07:53 pm »

Another cheap source for excellent Belden cables with 75 ohm Canare BNC connectors:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm

They also have adapaters for RCA to BNC (see Adapater on left hand side attached link)

I purchased the subject cable & used with RCA/BNC adapter & attenuator(s) to connect a JKeny battery MKII Hiface USB toS/PDIF convertor to my Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11.

Sounds really good & allows 24 bit/ 192 hz Hi-rez files to boot.

john dozier · « **Reply #23 on:** 8 Apr 2013, 08:00 pm »

I have the Blue Jeans cable, but IMHO the Canare are crimp type and are not as good for maintaining impedance as the ones from Markertek. Regards

WGH · « **Reply #24 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 02:27 am »

Quote from: john dozier on 8 Apr 2013, 07:07 pm

On length, Martin Collums suggest as short as possible, Guido Tent says 30 inches, others suggest from 1.5m to 25 feet. All of these are known figures in the hi-end audio community. What does the circle suggest? Anyone done any listening test with the same cable in differ lengths?

I haven't done any listening tests, I just use whatever SPDIF I have on hand (with RCA ends) and enjoy the music, usually it's a DH Labs. That said there are a couple of threads regarding cable lengths and reflections which are based on measurements only . The results are 5 meters or about 16' with BNC ends. I have used attenuators, it all depends which DAC is used, some sound better without an attenuator in line.

Reflections and attenuators

Analog Research SPDIF cables are available again

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #25 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 03:25 am »

Thanks for the links. I wonder why Pat recommends 16' in that thread, but sell 8' cables at ART. In any case that leads to:

Quote from: john dozier on 8 Apr 2013, 07:07 pm

Anyone done any listening test with the same cable in differ lengths?

As far as I got was buying some 6' Radio Shack Auvio digital cables and comparing to my 1 meter Monster M1000D (Yes, I know, but Monster actually made a pretty darn good cable with this one) and did not prefer the Auvio over the Monster. Perhaps I'll actually buy some 8' or 16' cables, possibly the ones John D recommends, and try a comparison with 3' lengths of the same cable. However that one's a bit far down on the list of audio priorities.

GBB · « **Reply #26 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 03:41 am »

Quote from: munosmario on 8 Apr 2013, 04:07 pm

Re Black Cat, well, although their actual BNC connectors appear to be of certain good quality, in my experience, the provided RCA adaptors tend to suffer from intermittent signal problems. In any event, I would like to experiment with just one cable (I have four) and see if ICM's BNC's unique patented connection structure and Teflon dielectric make a difference.

Mario,
Sure - I understand the desire to experiment and test whether a change makes a difference. I've been surprised in the past, so I look forward to your results. The only thing that confused me was your comment that the problem was in the BNC-RCA adapters, while your solution was replace the BNC connectors. The two don't really seem to go together. So I must be misinterpreting your message. Anyway, have fun experimenting.
---Gary

john dozier · « **Reply #27 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 09:31 am »

If you simply MUST use BNC-RCA adapters, be forewarned that the Black Cat version is a very loose fit. The ones that Blue Jeans and just about everyone else sells, are not very good. The best I have found is the Moster (!). It works very well and makes good contact. I think it has been discontinued, but check the bay. Regards

munosmario · « **Reply #28 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 09:34 am »

Quote from: GBB on 9 Apr 2013, 03:41 am

Mario,
Sure - I understand the desire to experiment and test whether a change makes a difference. I've been surprised in the past, so I look forward to your results. The only thing that confused me was your comment that the problem was in the BNC-RCA adapters, while your solution was replace the BNC connectors. The two don't really seem to go together. So I must be misinterpreting your message. Anyway, have fun experimenting.
---Gary

Hi, Gary. I never said that the problem with the RCA adaptors was the motivator for my desire to experiment...that desire is simply that, to see (or hear) if the new type of BNC connector--on paper, technically superior-- is actually i) sonically better and ii) to get pleasure from owning something that in itself represents the state of the art in BNC design an connectivity--something of great simplicity that, unlike crimp BNC design, maintains the perfect circular termination needed to preserve the cable's specified 75 ohm impedance, as require by the circuit.

My mentioning of the problem with the RCA adaptor was simply in direct response to your assertion that the Black Cat connectors were "really good." They de-facto offered the RCA adaptors and the primary BNC plug as a system that, in my experience, did not work properly...so, making (at least to me) the overall quality of selected system connectors a bit suspect and, thus, making me wonder how much better performance could one get out of those good sounding cables with a state of the art connector (at $1.70 a piece!!)

Cheers,

Mario

john dozier · « **Reply #29 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 09:38 am »

GO MARIO! We wait with bated breath!

brother love · « **Reply #30 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 09:52 am »

Attenuators with BNC ends were added to reduce jitter but not so much as to lose a lock on signal. Supposedly this helps offset RCA to BNC adapters coupled with BJC SPDIF cable with 75 ohm BNC ends.

Covered here & a referenced DIYAudio link: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72468.120

munosmario · « **Reply #31 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 10:36 am »

Quote from: john dozier on 9 Apr 2013, 09:38 am

GO MARIO! We wait with bated breath!

Oh, Great Master, thank you for your encouragement!!

Seriously, John, thank you for this thread...it lead and prompted me to investigate those ICM circular compression BNC connectors used in the cables you brought to light. Those connectors appear to be the real deal (SOTA) and at $1.70 quite an inexpensive quality "fix". For god's sake, stop beating that poor fellow

Mario

john dozier · « **Reply #32 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 11:02 am »

It's an old etching showing Preston Brooks caning Charles Sumner. Brooks tore up his cane doing it, so the merchants of Charleston took up a collection, bought him a new cane and had inscribed on it "Hit him again". Regards

viggen · « **Reply #33 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 04:02 pm »

Many many years ago my friend brought over his 1.5m Illuminations D60 to compare with my .5m D60. After many A/B cable swaps, we determined the 1.5m sounded a tinge more relaxed than the .5m. It could all be placebo who knows. The .5m sounded a bit more agitated. Will never notice the difference on a day to day basis though.

And, if I were in the market for a SPDIF cable today, I would definitely give this cable a try. "Uniform impedance" is the marketing speak that I look for in a SPDIF cable.

I wonder how these cables would work in analog application as well.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #34 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 10:53 pm »

Quote from: munosmario on 9 Apr 2013, 10:36 am

Seriously, John, thank you for this thread...it lead and prompted me to investigate those ICM circular compression BNC connectors used in the cables you brought to light.

A good time for me to thank John for bringing up this thread as well. I've banged and baited him a bit, but only because the topic is so interesting. I look forward to more posts on the topic, it would be da bomb if a cheap and cheerful little digital cable turned out to be a giant killer.

john dozier · « **Reply #35 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 11:30 pm »

There is really only one way to test the effect of length on SQ. So that end, already having Markertek 3 and 6 foot bnc to bnc cables, I will order a 15 foot. We shall see. Regards

john dozier · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 12:24 am »

BTW for the mathematically inclined, I believe the cable Markertek uses has a velocity of propagation of 82%c. Regards

coverto · « **Reply #37 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 03:37 am »

Quote from: john dozier on 9 Apr 2013, 11:02 am

It's an old etching showing Preston Brooks caning Charles Sumner. Brooks tore up his cane doing it, so the merchants of Charleston took up a collection, bought him a new cane and had inscribed on it "Hit him again". Regards

Curious - what point are you trying to make about this old, familiar bit of history?

john dozier · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 07:52 pm »

That insulting someone's father-in-law is never good practice!

john dozier · « **Reply #39 on:** 18 Apr 2013, 10:00 pm »

This cable is even better than I thought as it continues to break in. Very thick PTFE in the connectors is, I suspect, responsible. I have 6ft BNC and RCA cables in transit. We shall put an end to this RCA nonsense shortly. Regards