Any Marble 9 biampers here ?

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oris98

Any Marble 9 biampers here ?
« on: 7 Jul 2004, 06:03 pm »
Hi all,

I am seriously planning to passively biamping my marble 9s with Dennis Murphy design of crossover.  I have heard people talking about using WAVE 8 (ASL) to drive the tweeters.  My questions:
1. 8wpc powerful enough ?  Jazz, light rock mainly & HT use.
2. How does the split of mid range and tweeter frequency matched up with SS amp and tube based amp ?  XO cross at 3K, so some mid frequency will come from the wave 8 and some from ss amp.  Would it matching ok ?
3. What do you use to control the gain for the wave8s to match up with the SS amp  (Bryston) ?

Do you suggest to mixing tube amp and ss amp for biamping the Marble 9 2way speaker environment ?

Many thanks in advance...

jqp

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Any Marble 9 biampers here ?
« Reply #1 on: 7 Jul 2004, 08:21 pm »
I do an active biamping of my Marble 9.0s: the crossover is disconnected from the drivers, with 100 watts going to each of the drivers. The crossover is an external, electronic crossover (active) and the crossover point is 2500.

To do all this I am using a pair of the discontinued Multiamps.

I will be using the PT-3, from IRD when it is available, as my electronic crossover, and move the multiamps to another duty.

Here is an article that I would read before investing in any biamping setup:

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

oris98

Any Marble 9 biampers here ?
« Reply #2 on: 8 Jul 2004, 05:54 am »
HI JQP,

Are you using the active xo from the multiamp ?  Any reason you pick 2500 to cross ?  Is PT2 xo available yet ?

What is the result of biamping your marble 9s?  
 Thanks

jqp

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Any Marble 9 biampers here ?
« Reply #3 on: 10 Jul 2004, 05:18 pm »
Yes I am using the Active XO setup of the Multiamp. I like the 2500 point better than the 3000 point on the multiamp, and the drivers support that crossover point.

Unfortunately the PT-2 is not available yet from IRD, nor is the PT-3. I will get the PT-3 and finally get my stereo pair of subwoofers.

The result of biamping the 9.0's is definitely noticable! It did take some surgery on the 9.0s (removing the woofers, unplugging the crossover, plugging both drivers to their binding posts, replacing the woofers) but it was fun and well worth it. There is a topic out there somewhere where I document the whole process - lets see if I can find it...

OK here it is (but the pics need to be relinked due to a cataclysmic warping of cyberspace)

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=347


Here is another topic with more comments

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=2164

jqp

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Any Marble 9 biampers here ?
« Reply #4 on: 12 Jul 2004, 11:03 pm »
There we go... all the Marble 9.0 photos are re-linked for you viewing pleasure.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=347

aggielaw

Noob Needs Idiot's Guide to Biamping
« Reply #5 on: 27 Jun 2005, 05:59 am »
I've read several articles explaining biamping, but what I don't understand is: how do you biamp if your speakers (in my case, mini 9.0's) only have one set of terminals?

Second is, how does vertical biamping work, in the sense that the amplifier for the right speaker has, say, the right output of the amp going to the woofer while the left output is going to the tweeter.  The amp "thinks" that what is going to the tweeter is actually a full-range signal to the left speaker, which I would think would cause the right tweeter to now send out the information meant for the left tweeter.  Same would be true for each channel.  This would cause all kinds of imaging problems.

Thanks for the insight.

Howard

MaxCast

Re: Noob Needs Idiot's Guide to Biamping
« Reply #6 on: 27 Jun 2005, 11:51 am »
Quote from: aggielaw
I've read several articles explaining biamping, but what I don't understand is: how do you biamp if your speakers (in my case, mini 9.0's) only have one set of terminals?

Second is, how does vertical biamping work, in the sense that the amplifier for the right speaker has, say, the right output of the amp going to the woofer while the left output is going to the tweeter.  The amp "thinks" that what is going to the tweeter is actually a full-range signal to the left speaker, which I would think would caus ...


You would need two sets of posts for each speaker.  One set for the tweet adn the other for the woof.  

To actively bi amp you need 4 channels of amplification.  You also need an active crossover before the amps splitting the signal for tweets and woofs.

source>preamp>active xo (two channels going in and four coming out)> two amps>speakers.

jqp

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Re: Noob Needs Idiot's Guide to Biamping
« Reply #7 on: 4 Jul 2005, 04:19 am »
Quote from: aggielaw
I've read several articles explaining biamping, but what I don't understand is: how do you biamp if your speakers (in my case, mini 9.0's) only have one set of terminals?

Second is, how does vertical biamping work, in the sense that the amplifier for the right speaker has, say, the right output of the amp going to the woofer while the left output is going to the tweeter.  The amp "thinks" that what is going to the tweeter is actually a full-range signal to the left speaker, which I would think would caus ...


Adding to MaxCast's comments...

You must connect the drivers seperately to an electronic crossover, either with or without a second set of binding posts. You may be able to add binding posts to your mini 9.0s to allow for active biamping. When you do active biamping with norh Marble 9.0 speakers, you disconnect both drivers of each speaker from the internal crossover, and connect them to their proper binding posts.

I would think that with synthetic marble, you could drill a second set of holes and add binding posts. Check with norh on this issue, they can give you advice on how it could be done.

Another issue is, are the mini 9.0 drivers suited for active biamping. That is, can they work with some electronic crossover instead of requiring some feature of the mini 9.0 passive crossover. (the Marble 9.0 drivers can work with electronic crossovers, in my case with the built in electronic crossover in the Multiamps). The drivers need to accept the same level of input from the stereo amp (i.e. 100 watts per channel, 1 channel for each driver) Again, double-check with norh on this issue.

Then you need a suitable electronic crossover.

This brings me to your second question: how vertical biamping works (active vertical biamping).

With so many possible setups, it helps to remember that active biamping takes us out of the realm of receivers with a preamp, 2 amps, and a tuner all in one unit. Also out of the realm of a unitized speaker, with woofer, tweeter, connectors, and passive crossover all in a "black box". We are now dealing with individual preamp, amps (one for each driver), the 4 drivers, connectors/binding posts, crossovers.

Of course an amp doesn't "think", it merely copies the signal that is sent to it - in this case, by the electronic crossover, which in this case sits between the preamp and the amps. Because it is an electronic crossover it should not weaken or corrupt nearly as much of the signals the way a passive crossover can. The signal gets copied much more accurately for each driver. That and the fact that there is plenty of power overhead for each driver, as well as flexibility in crossover points,  are the main benefits of active biamping.

A stereo amp has 2 identical amps in the box, say 100 watts each.  You could also use 2 monoblock amps instead of a stereo amp. 2 amps can be used for left and right channels of a stereo signal, or for one channel, woofer and tweeter in the case of active biamping. Then you would need a second set of amps for the other channel's woofer and tweeter. The key is that the electronic crossover handles the output to the channels and the drivers, including the crossover frequency. ( In the case of triamping there are 3 amps per channel with 2 crossover points for the three drivers.)

Hope this makes sense. Someone correct me if I missed something.

You can see that active biamping can be a somewhat proprietary solution or a custom solution. The Marble 9.0s were designed with biamping in mind from the beginning, and that is what the Multiamps were designed for also. (They were both designed to be used for regular amping as well.)