Longhorn Gold question

mrlittlejeans · « **on:** 24 Mar 2013, 06:18 pm »

I'm just getting started in the world of vinyl and am curious about the Longhorn Gold cartridge.

The description says it doesn't require another step up gain stage. Does this mean I can use it with a preamp that has a phonostage for MM cartridges? Or would I need to get a preamp with a higher gain phono stage.

Are there any turntables I should not use with the Longhorn Gold? The TT i'm thinking about is a VPI traveler.

avahifi · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Mar 2013, 07:45 pm »

The Longhorn Gold has normal moving magnet output, although it is neither a moving magnet nor a moving coil design, and not a strain generator either. It has normal MM output so it works great with any AVA phono section.

Ask Wayner about possible turntable motor hum interaction issues.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Mar 2013, 08:19 pm »

We just sent one out to a customer who also has a VPI Traveler. VPI was shipping this table with a Grado Gold1 thru certain vendors, so I see no problems with hum. Should be a nice combo.

It just needs the usual MM phono preamp, 47K ohm impedance. The Longhorn Gold1 (and Green1) track nicely at 1.6 grams.

Wayner

Otis · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Mar 2013, 11:35 pm »

Doesn't the Traveller have a DC motor? It's a belt drive with the motor situated on the opposite side of the arm in the upper left, so hum shouldn't be a problem in any case.

Old Harry has said that he likes the Grado Gold. In fact the website shows the Traveller wearing one.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 10:09 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 24 Mar 2013, 07:45 pm

The Longhorn Gold has normal moving magnet output, although it is neither a moving magnet nor a moving coil design, and not a strain generator either.

I thought it had to be one or the other (setting aside the strain generator types used by MicroAcoustics and possibly others). Either a coil moves in a magnetic field or a magnet moves inside a coil. If it isn't either one of these, what is it?

Can someone explain? Just idle curiosity.

avahifi · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 11:20 pm »

I was wondering if somebody was going to pick up on my observations about the unique nature of the Grado workings.

The Grado uses an inducted magnet setup with the massive parts, the magnets themselves, embedded in the stylus assembly structure.

These induct a magnetic field into the very low mass disc attached to the base of the stylus at the end buried in the replaceable styus assembly at the opposite end from the diamond tip. The coils are fixed in the cartridge body.

Moving magnet cartridges have to wiggle a relatively massive chunk of iron around attached to the tail end of the stylus assembly and have enough of a magnet to generate a useful electronic signal.

A moving coil cartridge obviously has an electrical coil attached to the end of the stylus and that has to make a hard wired contact with the body output pins. Thus the stylus assembly can't be replaceable and besides the coil itself, the moving coil cartridge has the attaching wires flopping around as the coil moves. Not very elegant, and as the coil must be tiny, the output is very low.

With the Grado, neither the magnets nor the coils need to move and don't. The magnets can be strong and the output high, while the moving mass is very well controlled, very low, and predictable.

Frank Van Alstine

Otis · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 11:47 pm »

All you say about the Grado vs. MMs is correct of course, but the real question should be "is it an advantage"? In just about every test report I've ever read, Grados taken as a 'black box' measure pretty poorly but manage to sound pleasant regardless. (kinda like SET amps.)

It would be interesting to see a Longhorn put through the paces to see if it's performance improves.

Cart effective tip masses are calculated, not weighed directly and modern (as in post 1980ish Samarium magnet) MMs have very low ETM in their top models and on paper at least, should outperform Grados. For anecdotal evidence of this, consider that Ortofon and Stanton just to name two, came out with fine Moving Iron types in the 70s but when lighter, superior magnets came along in the 80s they went back to MMs in their top offerings. Denon and A-T Moving Coils measure better yet minus a dab of top end ringing. Food for thought....

Kwebb · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 03:16 am »

Grado Gold 1 cartridge diagram above for your viewing pleasure.
Very interesting topic. I hope to have some first hand experience to add to this discussion very soon.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 11:57 pm »

I had a Grado Longhorn from AVA back in the day in an HK TT and it sounded great. Very neutral and detailed. Never measured it... There used to be test records, A-T and Shure IIRC (maybe others too) both offered them.

Grado headphones don't measure too hot either, look at the headroom charts, square waves are practically unrecognizable, but they definitely have a following.

Kwebb · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Apr 2013, 06:24 pm »

I recieved my Grado Gold 1 Longhorn cartridge and have installed and aligned it properly on my VPI traveler TT (thank you Wayne!). I listened to 3 albums last night and am really impressed with what i am hearing. More detailed information with pictures coming after i have had more time to play. So far it sounds awesome, does not disappoint.

kyle

Hydro · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 02:33 am »

A friend and I went together on a vinyl system, I had a SOTA sapphire turntable and he bought the Grado Gold Longhorn. This combination makes a lot of hum, has anyone tried sheilding the motor on a SOTA. Does the foil shield work or will we need to break open an old Oscope?

Minn Mark · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 03:42 pm »

I have used an original Longhorn on my SOTA Comet for many years with no hum issues whatsoever.

Regards,

Mark

Kwebb · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 04:23 pm »

Below is a quick assessment of the AVA Grado Gold 1 Longhorn cartridge after a couple of evenings of listening:

First off it’s a high quality cartridge from a manufacturing perspective. The AVA modifications are awesomely performed, looks and feels as if Grado made the LongHorn version. Installation and alignment was easy and performed just like any other cartridge. Below are some pictures:

The picture above shows the TT on its base platform which is a 3.5” x 3.5” by 23.5” slab of concrete that weighs in at 190lbs.

How does it sound?
Impressively detailed, dynamic, fluid, the sound stage is thoroughly filled with more detail and contrast when comparing vinyl to the same recording, same track, as digital CD format. The way that I did this comparison was by switching from same track on DAC to the same track on the TT via the preamp input selection knob and adjusting to same volume manually. The analog has more beauty, more resolution, more detail, and more contrast. It is also noteworthy that a good vinyl recording sounds VERY GOOD while a so-so vinyl recording sounds so-so.

All-in-All I am completely elated by the performance of the AVA modified Grado Gold 1 LongHorn cartridge so far. In comparison to my digital source (which I can honestly say is SUPERB without question), this LongHorn cartridge set up, on the VPI Traveler TT, does provide a better listening experience. Playing a well recorded & pressed vinyl record produces an improved sound stage image, greater detail, greater contrast, and higher resolution (overall a better sound quality) as compared to equivalent digital.

I can highly recommend this cartridge without hesitation. Another AVA product that has been very well thought through, throughly developed, masterfully produced, and peforms as stated.

Kyle

System Details:
DAC - AVA FET Valve Hybrid
Pre - AVA FET Valve Hybrid
Amp - AVA FET Valve Hybrid 600R
Power Conditioning - Balance Power Techologies BP1
Speakers - Salk Sound HT3
Room - 13.5' x 15.5' x 9'
Acoustic Treatments - QTY 19, 2'x4' panels, QTY 9, 4'x 19" solid corner bass traps

roscoeiii · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 04:37 pm »

Kyle,

Have you had the opportunity to compare it to any other carts?

heiba · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 04:50 pm »

I experienced record wear during the early 1980's when I used Grado cartridges. Was easy to hear
when the elliptical stylus reached the grooves near the label.

Kwebb · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 06:32 pm »

Roscoeiii,

I have not compared the Grado Gold 1 LongHorn to any other cartridge. I should have stated this in my original post. I have just set up this new TT & cartridges as the result of a recent decision to return to analog after a 15 year departure into digital. After much study and consideration I chose the VPI Traveler & LongHorn cartridge as my new entry point back into the world of analog. Hope this explains the situation.

I am hoping that readers appreciate the quality of the close up stylus photo I took. This kind of magnification is not obtainable with just a causual snapshot.

Kyle

a.wayne · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 06:56 pm »

Yes that pic was impressive .............

Kwebb · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Apr 2013, 07:01 pm »

a.wayne,

Glad you noticed!

charmerci · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Apr 2013, 01:33 am »

I'm pretty sure that a 75 lb concrete slab (or less) would serve the same function.

190 lbs???

Kwebb · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Apr 2013, 02:10 am »

charmerci,

The only slab that I could find that would fit on the rack is the one I got. It needed to be at least 23" x 23" to be supported directly on and by the rack vertical posts under vibration dampening pads supports. It is a bit of an overkill for stability but it realy solid and level has worked out very well. Hope this explains the situation.

Kyle