[geowak]

A friend of mine (we'll call him Paul) asked me this question the other day while listening in my family room to my audio system.

"How do you decide which audio manufacturer to purchase gear from?"

Many years ago I helped him get a very modest system of some floor standing Paradigm speakers and Yamaha receiver and CD player. But today upon hearing my system, with components made by companies he has never heard of, Paul is curious. He likes the sound I get and told me he might want to update his gear this year.

I told Paul I tend to listen to well known and respected manufacturers that have been around awhile like ARC, McIntosh, Yamaha, JBL, Magnepan, Vandersteen, etc. I also said to stay away from new companies that might not be around in 10 years. He suggested Paul visit well respected audio dealers (by which there are not as many today as in the past). I told Paul I very rarely buy expensive gear online. I have not had the best of luck with used gear or shipping (UPS nightmares!) although I know it can be done successfully. I told him I do not believe in 90% of the hype about a product when someone, even a pro reviewer, is raving about the performance. Lastly, I told Paul to listen to as much audio gear as he can, and when he hears something he likes (playing his music), ask for an in home trial.

So there is my answer, what would be your answer.

[JerryM]

I'd be inclined introduce Paul to AudioCircle. I'd compel him to judiciously use the 'Search' function for good reading; to ask for thoughts and/or comparisons; and to be cool and make some friends.

All of the above are time-tested, and have often simplified the decision making process for me. 

Have fun,

Jerry

[JakeJ]

Geowak,

That's about the best advice I could give someone.  I agree with Jerry in that there is lots of good info on the web but one must be aware of what you have already mentioned, hype.  I would also steer a friend away from cult gear because I have found that the hype about some stuff can be absloutely false.


I also agree that he should stick with newer equipment from established mfrs from a local source so he has a "go to" for problems, if they arise.  IME one should only play in the used gear market if one has long term experience in audio and fairly deep pockets or a good mentor.

[FullRangeMan]

"How do you decide which audio manufacturer to purchase gear from?"

I look for reliable, good sound equip from any brand or country of origin.
In amplification I stick with integrated tube amps.

I ignore Transistorized amps to keep away from the Solid State Carrousel obsoleting, its had a short life as top of the line, every year is release various new transistor devices.

[mark funk]

First, buy from an US manufacturer.

Listen to and don't look at as much stuff as you can. How it looks has nothing to do with how it sounds.

Does it sound good to you? Don't buy it because they say it sounds good. Your the one that is going to live with and pay for it.

I always buy new when I buy. You can always take it back that's kinda hard to do when you buy used.


                                                                                                                                         

[neekomax]

I also agree that he should stick with newer equipment from established mfrs from a local source so he has a "go to" for problems, if they arise.  IME one should only play in the used gear market if one has long term experience in audio and fairly deep pockets or a good mentor.

I dunno, man, I don't really have 'deep pockets', especially when you consider the kind of bread guys on here seem to blow on their rigs. My system has cost me about 2K all told, and that's precisely because I've bought a couple elements used. They've been decent to good buys, like my Acurus DIA-100 passive pre integrated, which I picked up for $400 used. Thing is great, right amount of power, no BS. And the not-as-good ones (Marantz SACD player), well, $180 isn't too much of a tragedy. But a new one at $700 would have been, to me.

Also, I bought my speakers from a new manufacturer, and I got super well taken care of when I had a driver fail, no 'corporate policies', just reasonable, respectful service, because he wanted me to be happy.

Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but these guidelines you guys are giving seem a little arbitrary.

My only advice would be, if people say something sounds/is great, ask them why, from a theoretical and practical design perspective. If they've got a concrete, scientifically based answer, cool. Explore the benefits and trade-offs of that design, see who else is doing it, see if some are better executed than others, etc. If, however, they say stuff like, "synergy" or "PRaT", or "you just gotta hear it", then keep moving...

PS - Mark Funk... Really, American-made is your prime criterion?

[Diamond Dog]

PS - Mark Funk... Really, American-made is your prime criterion?

I've heard ( and owned ) some great US-made equipment. And some real crap. My system currently consists of gear from four countries on three continents. It's a big world...

D.D. 

[JohnR]

A friend of mine (we'll call him Paul) asked me this question the other day while listening in my family room to my audio system.

"How do you decide which audio manufacturer to purchase gear from?"

If he likes your system, wouldn't buying some of the same make sense? e.g. you have MMGs for speakers?

[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members.
A) Listen at home.
B) Don't (Always) believe the reviewers.
C) Avoid big and one man show manufacturers,
     unless you know many friends that recommend the equipment
     they own and even then, each person have a personnal taste/criterias.
D) After sales service is as important as how the equipment sounds.
When you buy a house, they say: Location, location, location.
When you buy audio stuff, it's: Sound, sound, sound -
after sales service, after sales service, after sales service.
(Of course when I can, I give preference to US manufacturers.)

Guy 13

[richidoo]

Find a good dealer, someone who knows what good sound is and how to make it. Someone who sells gear at all price ranges. Someone who will encourage him to audition pieces at home. And someone who will sell new gear with a fair discount, like 15-20%. Someone who will take responsibility for defects and get involved to solve problems. Over the long term, someone like this makes the hobby enjoyable and keep the sound quality as high as the budget allows. In our small city, we are fortunate to have several dealers like this.

[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members.
For me, the a bad thing is a dealer that only sell one brand,
he will (Almost, always) be biased toward the brand he sell.

Guy 13

[geowak]

If he likes your system, wouldn't buying some of the same make sense? e.g. you have MMGs for speakers?

Good point John. He may get some MMG's because they are very nice sounding for budget speakers. He also like my Vandys. But Paul does not want to spend nearly as much $$$ as I have. So I like the suggestions here and have pointed him toward the AC. Many years ago, when I helped him put together a modest system, there were many more brick and mortar stores to walk into, sit down and hear some brands. Here in Ohio many of them are gone. Just a few left. mostly cater to the HT types.

Really not trying to start a war here, just trying to get many peoples opinions on how they have learned how to buy audio and where to look. He is interested in the manufacturers to.

[woodsyi]

I see some flows in your line of thinking. 

Well known and established audiophile companies are very expensive. 
Well known and established mass market companies put out crap intentionally for profit. 
You kind of have to look at small niche audiophile companies (even one man brigade) for great product at "reasonable" price.
That's where AC is great at gathering information. 
Most of the manufacturers here are not big time.  Most are respected in their field but don't operate with huge capital.  Most rely on "cost efficient" process (hand built) to trim cost. 
One just has to read, ask and learn on AC what may be good for you at your price point.
It may or may not be from manufacturers here.  I have mixed bag of stuff.
Audition the pieces if possible.  People I meet through AC have all been great at sharing knowledge and opening their homes to let you listen in person. 
Build relationships on line or in person who hears like you.  You can infer some ideas by reading their comments.
But always remember, it's your ears that will be the final arbiter.

After all this, you get something and enjoy.
Especially enjoy the process.
Don't be in a hurry.
It's a never ending journey.   

[Stu Pitt]

First starting out is different than being involved in the hobby for a period of time.  What I'd suggest obviously depends on budget, but the principals are the same regardless...

Keep things as simple as possible while getting great sound.
- No need to get into seperates, outboard power supplies or obsessing over cables, power conditioners, racks, etc.
- I've always liked integrated amps

Keep amplification and sources seperate (I know, it goes against my pervious statement)
- Formats come and go; having something that'll turn into the equivalant of an 8-track receiver in 5 years isn't a good way to keep someone interested long-term IMO.

Make sure it functions exactly as the person wants it to.
- If he wants a remote, don't suggest something that doesn't have one; if he wants iPod stuff, it should have it in a simple to use manner
- If it doesn't do exactly what he wants, he'll quickly loose interest
- Make sure it's got everything he wants, nothing he doesn't, and it's not what you want (I'm guilty of suggesting stuff I'd like to try out/own)

Buy locally if at all possible
- From a local dealer/seller

If at all possible, buy gear made in a non-3rd world country; US and/or NA preferrable
- US/NA companies are generally easier to get service for IME.  It's cheaper and far easier to call Bryston, Mac, Rogue, etc, than others.  They also love talking to their gear's owners. They're an extremely valuable resource
- British gear can be pretty good too, Naim and Rega have a great distributor in The Sound Org.  Some parts have to come from England, which isn't as easy or quick.

Some of the Internet direct companies can be great too.
- In home auditions, great support.  Red Wine and AVA come to mind
- Some Internet direct companies are nothing but hype

In the end, look into stuff that sounds great, is fully functional without unneccessary stuff, and comes from a company with a great track record in after sales service.

After gear is chosen, make sure it's set up correctly - speaker placement is huge.  If its great gear, it won't sound great if its not given proper placement.  He'll end up thinking he got ripped off because it doesn't sound much better than an htib.

[rollo]

First and foremost one needs to learn what sound they like. What music you listen to and how you listen plays a key role as well. A budget as well.
   Exposure to many systems [ in home ] will allow one to form an opinion o what you prefer. Tubes ? SS ? hybrid ? Monitors ? full range speakers ? Vinyl ? Cd based ?
   The other deciding factor is ones room. One you have narrowed down what you like then evaluate such in your room only. Listen to speaker amp combos first.
    Perform the listening sessions alone so no input from someone else. If a dealer brings over a piece inform him you want no opinion of sonics from them. Trust your ears no one Else's. Remember there is NO best just what is best for you. Forget the hype of the latest and greatest. Synergy of components carries more weight than the component of the month.
   Enjoy and learn from hands on experience. No rush. Listen and listen as much as you can. Any local audio clubs for you to visit ? Any shows coming up ? Go check the systems out.


charles

[woodsyi]

double post

[TONEPUB]

I think your advice of "listen to as much gear as you can" is the best.

You never know where he'll end up.

Though it's tougher to find as many places to listen, it's really effort well spent.  Not only will he get good
experience, hopefully by auditioning a lot of gear, he will be comfortable with the choices made and enjoy
his music collection that much more!

[rollo]

I think your advice of "listen to as much gear as you can" is the best.

You never know where he'll end up.

Though it's tougher to find as many places to listen, it's really effort well spent.  Not only will he get good
experience, hopefully by auditioning a lot of gear, he will be comfortable with the choices made and enjoy
his music collection that much more!

    I should have added to read reviews to get an idea of what the product offers. Then listen.


charles

[geowak]

Wow it looks as though all this accumulative knowledge is great. I will give this thread title to my friend with the link to AC.
I can agree with all the info for sure.. except with the comments about some of the "not so big" manufacturers. I have witnessed two AC sponsors who have not given the best customer service, after the purchase. I was one who lost some dough. So I go with reputable companies, even if it costs more. I will pay up front, not get bad gear and go through all the trouble to off load it at a loss. Did it, did'nt like it.

This is not to say that one cannot do well with the lesser know companies. It's just means IMHO one has to be very careful and do plenty of research. And of course I leave out those who throw money here, there and everywhere. I like it when posters here leave HONEST comments about the gear they have purchased. Especially when it was bought directly from the manufacturer.

That said, thanks for all the input.

[Tyson]

My advice is always the same - start with the speakers as they make the largest impact on the sound, then find amps that sound good with those specific speakers.