[JonnyFive]

Hi all, I am running a Marantz SR6006 and Emotiva XPA-5 in 7.1 configuration with Dolby heights. I have 3 GR Research N3S monitors for my front three, crossed over to an SVS SB13 sub at 80hz.  I use Audyssey XT, sometimes using the "bypass L/R" feature.  In my application, the effect Audyssey has on the subwoofer is substantial, so I'd like to keep using it.  I do about 80% HT and 20% 2.1 ch listening.

Question: Things sound pretty cold and analytical.  I grew up on guitar, and I miss that warm tube sound when I'm doing 2.1 ch listening.  Is there any way to get some tube warmth in there while keeping the Marantz?  My thought is a hybrid tube amp, something like the Van Alstine Fet 400R (or something similar but less expensive), powering the L/R. 

But, what value, if any, would this tube amp add following the admittedly humble Marantz receiver?  Does all the warmth come from the pre amp anyway?

Thanks,

Jon

[ricardojoa]

Not all tube give warmth. I am suprised the those n3s gives that kind of sound.

[JonnyFive]

Not all tube give warmth. I am suprised the those n3s gives that kind of sound.

I don't have the left/right N3S monitors set up yet, they just came in today.  I have had the center channel set up for a couple weeks. So far I really like the N3S, and I didn't mean to imply I thought the speakers were lacking. Rather, solid state in general seems pretty cold to me (just my opinion).  Yet, my receiver/amp have to run 7 channel home theater, so 7 tubed monoblocks really aren't an option.  So I was wondering if any kind of tubed or hybrid tubed power amp, like the Fet Valve 400R by Van Alstine on the L/R channels, would improve the character of the sound during 2.1 channel listening...or would I not notice it at all?

Jon

[Cheeseboy]

Jonny,

Look further upstream!

I have found that for me a change in the preamp for 2 channel audio will reap you the musical improvement that you are looking to gain.    Receivers today have so much going on it seems to me impossible for them to really do Home theater and 2 channel right.  I would invest in a tubed preamp with Home Theater Pass Through.   Of course we all have our favorites.  You can opt for a pre amp with a built in Phono Pre or not.  I would go to the used market for starters. 

There is no shortage of quality used tubed pre amps with all the features that you might want to have.  A consideration might be a built in DAC rather than the phono pre.   Some are tubey some are very detailed and a little tubey.  Bottom line is regardless of tubey the analog signal pre amplification will sound better thrpough a dedicated preamp.  Big soundstage excellent front to back, detail and of course musical goodness.

Your GR Research speakers I'm pretty sure were voiced on a Dodd Audio Battery Pre.  I have one I love it.  Upgrade to the 6H30DR tube for about $120.  It's a stupid simple by meaningful upgrade. 

Buy sell trade have a good time!

[Ericus Rex]

I think the tube sound you're looking for resides in the power tubes, not the drivers.  Hybrids would likely just be a baby step in that direction.

[rockadanny]

IME, and my preferences, I agree with Ericus. In my quest for proper sounding (to me), enjoyable sounding (for me) music, I felt I needed to add tubes to my system. So I went from ss pre and power to a hybrid integrated; then an AVA hybrid power amp (using the pre-outs of the integrated for preamp only); then a separate tube preamp (with tube rectification); and finally an all tube power amp. For me, each step was an improvement, taking me closer to what I was looking for. But the all tube power amp made the most significant change for the better in my system.

[JonnyFive]

Thanks for all the input guys.  I've got the N3S's up and running, they sound pretty good in 2.1 with the SVS sub. 

I wasn't aware there was a feature like HT bypass on some preamps.  I've read a little bit about it, but I'm not entirely sure how it works.  Currently my setup goes Ps3-->Marantz-->Power amp, with the Ps3 doing all the decoding, connected via HDMI.  So how would this chain look with the inclusion of a HT bypass preamp?

Jon

[WC]

Thanks for all the input guys.  I've got the N3S's up and running, they sound pretty good in 2.1 with the SVS sub. 

I wasn't aware there was a feature like HT bypass on some preamps.  I've read a little bit about it, but I'm not entirely sure how it works.  Currently my setup goes Ps3-->Marantz-->Power amp, with the Ps3 doing all the decoding, connected via HDMI.  So how would this chain look with the inclusion of a HT bypass preamp?

Jon

PS3-->Marantz-->Preamp-->Power amp

How does your system sound with the Marantz powering the speakers instead of the Emotiva? Emotiva amps aren't really known for their warmth. I have the SR6005 and use the internal amps to power my speakers. They sound pretty good.

[JonnyFive]

PS3-->Marantz-->Preamp-->Power amp

How does your system sound with the Marantz powering the speakers instead of the Emotiva? Emotiva amps aren't really known for their warmth. I have the SR6005 and use the internal amps to power my speakers. They sound pretty good.

Hmm...good question.  I was running just the Marantz before I picked up the Emotiva.  I didn't really notice a difference with the Emotiva in the chain, maybe I should try it without and see if there is a difference.

[JonnyFive]

PS3-->Marantz-->Preamp-->Power amp

I'd like to follow up on this.  Currently I use the Audyssey processing in the Marantz receiver.  It's nothing short of a miracle on the subwoofer in my living space, it's literally night and day difference.  So could I still use this configuration for 2.1 listening, leaving the Audyssey processing on for the subwoofer?

PS3--> Marantz (in bypass L/R mode) send L/R-->Preamp --> Power amp and just send the sub out to the sub.

But if the PS3 is doing the decoding, what value does the preamp add here?

[WC]

I'd like to follow up on this.  Currently I use the Audyssey processing in the Marantz receiver.  It's nothing short of a miracle on the subwoofer in my living space, it's literally night and day difference.  So could I still use this configuration for 2.1 listening, leaving the Audyssey processing on for the subwoofer?

PS3--> Marantz (in bypass L/R mode) send L/R-->Preamp --> Power amp and just send the sub out to the sub.

But if the PS3 is doing the decoding, what value does the preamp add here?

The main reason for having a pre-amp with a HT bypass is if you like to listen to 2 channel music without the AV receiver. You could use the sub off the preamp also, depending on your sub connections, but it would be without the Audessey correction (using just the sub's low pass filter). If you always want to have the AV receiver and audessey working, then a different approach such as a tube buffer or tube power amp would be better choices.

[roscoeiii]

If you want tube sound in that set-up, I think that there are good hybrid amp options available. I really liked the Butler 2250 on my SP Tech Minis, which needed more power than I could afford in a tube design.

There is a Butler 5150 for sale here now, that you might want to give some thought to. I am a big fan (no affiliation with seller)

[JonnyFive]

If you want tube sound in that set-up, I think that there are good hybrid amp options available. I really liked the Butler 2250 on my SP Tech Minis, which needed more power than I could afford in a tube design.

There is a Butler 5150 for sale here now, that you might want to give some thought to. I am a big fan (no affiliation with seller)

Interesting, I'll check out the 5150.  Thanks for the recommendation. 

[roscoeiii]

You can check out reviews of the 2 channel Butler below:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/butler/2250.html

Same amp modules, but the 5150 (= 5 channels @150W per channel) is less powerful than the 2250 (=2 channels @250W per channel).

[JonnyFive]

You can check out reviews of the 2 channel Butler below:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/butler/2250.html

Same amp modules, but the 5150 (= 5 channels @150W per channel) is less powerful than the 2250 (=2 channels @250W per channel).

How would the 2 channel Butler compare to the 2 channel Fetvalve 400R from Van Alstine?  It has a little more power, any other differences?

[Kim S.]

I have Monarchy SE-250 monoblocks which I like.  I use a tube pre, but I still think the hybrid design adds something.  You get a little more of the tube magic without sacrificing good bass of an all solid state amp.  By changing the tubes I can tweak the sound to be more or less warm, more dynamic, etc.

[roscoeiii]

How would the 2 channel Butler compare to the 2 channel Fetvalve 400R from Van Alstine?  It has a little more power, any other differences?

Not sure. Never heard the Fetvalve. The Butler uses a pretty unique design for their hybrids, which is very easy on tubes. But the tubes are hardwired in, so no tube rolling possibilities (for better, for worse).

I can just report that when I wanted tube sound and power beyond what I could afford in a conventional tube amp, the Butler did the trick. Lots of Butler fans on AC.

[avahifi]

I thought it would be reasonable to chime in here just to remind you that all AVA products, new or used, to come with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Thus there is no big risk to simply try one for yourself in your own system.  If it does not do it for you, your only cost is shipping expense.

Frank Van Alstine

[JonnyFive]

I thought it would be reasonable to chime in here just to remind you that all AVA products, new or used, to come with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Thus there is no big risk to simply try one for yourself in your own system.  If it does not do it for you, your only cost is shipping expense.

Frank Van Alstine

Way to twist my arm, Frank   I have a bunch of questions for you, I'll give you a call in the coming days.  Thanks!

[rockadanny]

I have not heard Butler or Monarchy. I can say that the Fet Valve Ultra 550 I had was a very good and powerful amp. I enjoyed my time with it. And dealing with Frank and AVA was a terrific experience. Top-notch support and assistance. Frank is a real gem. In my case, I preferred to chase even more of a tube sound. In your case, well, you must decide, but it would not surprise me if Frank's latest hybrid amp completely satisfies your desires.