[ctviggen]

We're selling our small house to buy a bigger house with an in-law apartment (or potential in-law apartment).  My original plan was to build a house, but then I realized that local builders suggest $250/square foot minimum to build a house where I live.  Assuming we build a 2,200 square foot home with an 800 square foot in-law apartment, that's $750,000 for the house.  (Although we would try to find a lot that has a walk-out basement and put the in-law in the basement; it's unclear whether that $250/sq.ft. includes a finished basement, since even finished basements aren't included in square footage of a home.)  That doesn't include the land, which is easily 200k+ where I live, or digging the hole for the house or landscaping! 

So, we started looking for homes.  What we found is that we can get a smaller home, but it'll be older and need work, typically a lot of work.  Or, we can find a newer home, but the newer homes are generally massive, containing:

1) 2-story foyer (we went into one house where you need scaffolding to change the bulbs in the massive light fixture in the foyer!)

2) master bathrooms that are huge and have some kind of extremely large tub (which you'll use once at most and then just takes up space)

3) multiple fireplaces (which, for me, are nothing but energy-sucking holes in your house's envelope)

It's basically impossible to find a newer home that's smaller and energy efficient, at least where I am.  Many of these homes (aka "McMansions") are 4,000+, 5,000+ square feet. 

So, it's either a smaller, older home that needs a lot of work, or a much larger (but not much more expensive, relatively) home that doesn't need a lot of work. 

Did this happen everywhere in the U.S., or I am I living in McMansion land?  When did we think massive homes were what should be built?

[genjamon]

It's not you, an expression of the great "American Dream" and the great American housing boom combined.

[Phil A]

It probably boils down to profit for the builder in some cases.  They likely don't want to build a 1,500 square foot house as they figure there is more profit in a 2,500 square foot one and someone building a bigger house is likely to get more extras.  I'll be going through a move early next year but the house will be ready in a few weeks and I'll be closing sometime in April.  I was fine with a drop smaller house than I have now.  Unfortunately the lot I wanted was a premium lot and there was a 2,500 square foot minimum imposed by the developer.  In fact, I've been told that someone bought two lots across the street from me and is building an 8,000 square foot house (which is probably about double of what the bigger houses are give or take.  When I was there a few weeks back they are started to level out the dirt across the street.  I guess I'll see more next month.  Here is a recent article - http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-16/death-of-the-mcmansion-has-been-greatly-exaggerated

[thunderbrick]

Near where I live the McMansions seem cold and empty.  A few pieces of fine furniture perhaps, but little that makes it a home.  So much effort on taking perfect care of the home and landscaping that the house owns the residents, not the other way around.

I was recently hired to photograph the interior of a McMansion that's up for sale.  The POOL house probably cost more than my home did 20 years ago.  For what?  It's a showpiece house, beautifully done, listed at way less that I would have guessed.  And nobody wants it.

Let's hope that becomes a trend.

And the home's acoustics suck.    

[Photon46]

You've discovered one of my pet peeves in architectural/building trends in the last few decades: an ever growing preference for blander, larger, energy wasting domiciles. Here in central Florida, all the builders I've seen seem to subscribe to the same mediocre set of lego-like architectural elements they construct their houses from. No home ever seems different or unique. They all look like boring variations on the same interchangeable open floor plan Fuax-Tuscan elements. Efficient use of space and energy are the last things on most people's minds. I think the problem is that most builders are scared to death to buck the McMansion trend because most buyers would rather have a large dull looking house than an architecturally smart smaller place. Buyers drive the trends. Builder are happy to oblige because, as Phil points out, margins are higher for the prevalent trend. When we built our home, we integrated greater than normal insulation and a high efficiency HVAC system into our budget (a 2200 sq. ft. home.) We were the only ones in the entire neighborhood who chose to spend money that way. Don't get me started on those romance novel fantasy bathrooms that make women swoon during the open house (and curse them come time to clean them.) We downsized the builders fantasy bathroom/jetted tub to a shower stall and used the extra space for closets.

[thunderbrick]

Here's a creative solution to the in-law apartment/expense.

My wife works in Dallas and has been in an extended-stay hotel for nearly a year.  One "resident" is nuttier than a fruitcake.  Every morning the old bat grabs handfuls of coffee creamer and returns to her room for the day, sometimes muttering/shouting obscenities in the elevator.

I asked at the desk "WTF?"

They said. "oh yeah, her family found it better to put her here than wrecking their lives at home, and we're cheaper than a mental health facility."

True story.   

[Phil A]

You've discovered one of my pet peeves in architectural/building trends in the last few decades: an ever growing preference for blander, larger, energy wasting domiciles. Here in central Florida, all the builders I've seen seem to subscribe to the same mediocre set of lego-like architectural elements they construct their houses from. No home ever seems different or unique. They all look like boring variations on the same interchangeable open floor plan Fuax-Tuscan elements. Efficient use of space and energy are the last things on most people's minds. I think the problem is that most builders are scared to death to buck the McMansion trend because most buyers would rather have a large dull looking house than an architecturally smart smaller place. Buyers drive the trends. Builder are happy to oblige because, as Phil points out, margins are higher for the prevalent trend. When we built our home, we integrated greater than normal insulation and a high efficiency HVAC system into our budget (a 2200 sq. ft. home.) We were the only ones in the entire neighborhood who chose to spend money that way. Don't get me started on those romance novel fantasy bathrooms that make women swoon during the open house (and curse them come time to clean them.) We downsized the builders fantasy bathroom/jetted tub to a shower stall and used the extra space for closets.

Where I'm going is central (East) FL.  I actually found the community on Google earth and then did some research on the builder.  Here's is an article - I have a different model but mine is the all solar option.  There are just a few things that will run on gas -  http://www.ba-pirc.org/casestud/pdf/LifeStyle-ZEH.pdf

[rbwalt]

hey Phil. want to wish good luck with your move to the sunshine state. Potomac falls Va will miss you! i too am thinking about downsizing and moving out of Va in few yrs. The area you mentioned sounds like the Orlando area.Winter Park maybe? well keep a eye on those builders!!

take care.

rob.

[Bizarroterl]

Here's a creative solution to the in-law apartment/expense.

My wife works in Dallas and has been in an extended-stay hotel for nearly a year.  One "resident" is nuttier than a fruitcake.  Every morning the old bat grabs handfuls of coffee creamer and returns to her room for the day, sometimes muttering/shouting obscenities in the elevator.

I asked at the desk "WTF?"

They said. "oh yeah, her family found it better to put her here than wrecking their lives at home, and we're cheaper than a mental health facility."

True story.   

My wife works for an extended stay hotel.  They have a lot of long term customers that are either retired or in the situation you describe.  At first you think it's expensive, but with room cleaning, free breakfast and dinner it's rather reasonable.

[Phil A]

hey Phil. want to wish good luck with your move to the sunshine state. Potomac falls Va will miss you! i too am thinking about downsizing and moving out of Va in few yrs. The area you mentioned sounds like the Orlando area.Winter Park maybe? well keep a eye on those builders!!

take care.

rob.

Rob, thanks, no it is East - Melbourne (65 miles or so from Orlando).  A bit over a year ago I made the decision as next February hopefully is my second and last retirement.  First I was going to buy a condo and get away from the cold a couple of months (lovely weather like today where we may get a foot or so of snow helps with that decision), then it was going to be an over 55 place here and there and then I decided I just need one place.  Will miss certain things about this area (Jammin Java, Iota and Birchmere to name a few).  I noticed the lots on Google earth just over a year ago.  I drove down a year ago (had never done that before).  Kept an open mind and looked at places on the way down (St. Augustine, Jacksonville) and stayed in Orlando.  The Route 4 corridor in the Orlando/Tampa area was just too congested for me (I've won't miss the Northern, VA traffic).  I took in a Yankee spring training came and drove down one day.  When one looks at FL most of the tourist traffic (you get snow birds everywhere) is around Orlando or Southern FL.  So I'm close to Route 1 and Route 95 but 3 hours north of Miami and about 2.5 south of Jacksonville.  It's in an area that tends to be less apt for hurricanes or other things vs. many other areas of FL.  I posted a pic of the living room before which I had the builder wire to my specs.

[mav52]

Welcome to central Fla...  I hated it after 56 years.  Too many freaking people, retired young and moved on the lake in SC.    Still have a home in Sweetwater( Altamonte Springs) ... PS: enjoy I-4, it's a hoot.

[Phil A]

Welcome to central Fla...  I hated it after 56 years.  Too many freaking people, retired young and moved on the lake in SC.    Still have a home in Sweetwater( Altamonte Springs) ... PS: enjoy I-4, it's a hoot.

Thanks, I won't be on I-4 much.  That's why I ruled out the Orlando area.  The traffic reminded me of Northern, VA which is what I don't want.

[Phil A]

Welcome to central Fla...  I hated it after 56 years.  Too many freaking people, retired young and moved on the lake in SC.    Still have a home in Sweetwater( Altamonte Springs) ... PS: enjoy I-4, it's a hoot.

I understand completely.  That's why I grabbed my lot and built a house bigger and sooner than intended (did not need the bonus room except for the square footage requirement for the premium lot and the model I build was 60 square feet or so short so I just opted to get it - has a beautiful view though from it, from either the window or the upstairs porch - pics below)

[mav52]

Well if my home sells down there, the wife retires at the end of next year we are moving to the Flagler County area ( low taxes) on the inter-coastal in the Hammock area.  I used to fish that area a lot when I lived down there and found it "quite" and relaxing.  We are not going to build since there are a lot of homes in our price range built after 2005 around the 2000 - 3000 sq ft range on the inter-coastal for sale.  Most likely purchase one this year, rent it as a vacation home until we move back down.    Good luck to ya... 

[2bigears]

   i am a journeyman carpenter and power engineer by trades.. here is the plan, and i really don't know
,well i guess i do.. . it's penny savings up front .. but a home should have R-50 walls and R-100 attic insulation.. with this comes small mechanical hvac systems too. keep windows to a minimum if possible as 75% of the summer heat enters here.. thing is,, you need to do this at build time.. hard to do after..    if your home is built well,you really don't need to buy much heat..  and square footage,,be realistic here..one thing for sure ,, a MAN CAVE for the music !!!! 

[Phil A]

Good windows make a big difference on energy. Replaced them in my current home 3-4 years back and have 2-zone heating/AC and both of the standard builder's grade crap ones did not last.  So I have new more efficient units as well.  In the new place, except for a gas heater for the pool, a gas stove and a rough-in I had done for a gas grill when I get in there and eventually get a summer kitchen, everything else is solar powered.  I'll probably have a small annual credit from the power company. Lower energy costs are good for the environment as well as the wallet later on when one is retired and it is one less cost to think about.  Doing things during construction is definitely easier.  That's why I prefer new vs. a resale.  It's much harder to make changes with walls up.

[thunderbrick]

Good windows make a big difference on energy. Replaced them in my current home 3-4 years back and have 2-zone heating/AC and both of the standard builder's grade crap ones did not last.  So I have new more efficient units as well.  In the new place, except for a gas heater for the pool, a gas stove and a rough-in I had done for a gas grill when I get in there and eventually get a summer kitchen, everything else is solar powered.  I'll probably have a small annual credit from the power company. Lower energy costs are good for the environment as well as the wallet later on when one is retired and it is one less cost to think about.  Doing things during construction is definitely easier.  That's why I prefer new vs. a resale.  It's much harder to make changes with walls up.

+1! More money and effort in design and planning really pays off, as well as focusing on life-cycle COST instead or purchase price.

[Phil A]

Here's a recent article that seems to imply McMansions are being done less. I know in my current immediate area (15 miles give or take either way), I really don't see smaller homes being built.  http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2013/01/hold-that-mcmansion.html

[K Shep]

My original plan was to build a house, but then I realized that local builders suggest $250/square foot minimum to build a house where I live....Did this happen everywhere in the U.S.?

I work for a company that installs smart home technology.  Lighting control, motorized window treatment, A/V, climate control and energy management systems.  My territory includes 3 of the top 10 most expensive zip codes in the US (according to Forbes).  A few of our clients you know by name.  We don't persue a project unless it is 5k sq ft +. 

Our industry slowed from 08-11 then it has picked back up recently.  The strangest thing is all the Facebook millionairs buiding homes, many are in their 20's building 10k sq ft homes worth $10 mil.  Our average home is $1000 per foot.  My view is skewed, especially when I refer to my 1200 sq ft home in S.F.

[BobM]

You guys must all be from the South, because a large house up here in NY measures about 3000 sq ft. on 1/5th of an acre. Those are middle class NY Mc Mansions. Of course the wealthy do have their hamlets and properties, priced north of $1mill too.

Just when you have enough saved to retire and move someplace nice, and get yourself that dream house you always wanted, you no longer need that dream house. The maintenance is too much for your older, fragile body and you want to spend your time plaing golf/tennis or travelling anyway.

I guess it's better to be born into $$$ in some ways and enjoy these things when you are young enough to do so.