[Blueshirt1]

Hi,

I was planning on get the CA Concept as this is my 1st turntable and the plug and play sounded more fitted for me. But I just noticed someone locally (France) is selling a used REGA PLANAR 9 MK1 with the RB900 arm.

They are both the same price so I was wondering which one I was better off with? I see the R9 is discontinued so I could not find much on them but know Rega has a good reputation. Not that CelarAudio doesn't, just looking performance v price.

Thanks

[Blueshirt1]

And for shits and giggles there is also a Transcriptors Skeleton for sale locally as well. As amazing as that looks I feel like I would be getting in over my head with that as my 1st TT

[ricko01]

Hi,

I was planning on get the CA Concept as this is my 1st turntable and the plug and play sounded more fitted for me. But I just noticed someone locally (France) is selling a used REGA PLANAR 9 MK1 with the RB900 arm.

They are both the same price so I was wondering which one I was better off with? I see the R9 is discontinued so I could not find much on them but know Rega has a good reputation. Not that CelarAudio doesn't, just looking performance v price.


Thanks

Assuming the Rega setup is in good condition, I personally would go with the P9/RB900.

But... obviously their construction is totally different and therefore the sound. On a lessor note, they also have different looks.

So being impossible to audition both, you have a dilemma.

The advantage with the Rega 9 (aside from the sound)  is that there is future potential for upgrades (not the arm and probably not the platter) but it becomes a platform that you can continue tweaking as money allows.

The CA... it is what it is.


Only other consideration... can the seller prove the date of the Rega... if its to old... might not be worth it

check this link out for varying set of viewpoints:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-117849.html


Hope this helps,

Peter

[Blueshirt1]

Thanks Peter.

From that link you gave me it appears that it is an older model (15yrs maybe) with the  RB900 arm. It also does not come with a cartridge and seller is asking 1500 euros.

The Transcriptors Skeleton for the same price looks amazing but that's from the '70. I don't even know how to balance and arm, align or install a cartridge on a TT. I think I would be in a word of trouble with that.

[ricko01]

so lets go back to 1st principles... whats your budget?

Obviously as you point out, the CA is a set and forget table.

If you arent a tweaker, then its a good option... if you are...  then a good used P9 is a good option. Rega's have to be the most "wide open" tables around with small companies basing their existence on providing Rega mods.

So ... match your budget to how much tweaking you want to do and how much time you want to devote (or not) to your vinyl rig.

A "record player" (table/arm/cart) is a system and some people like swapping stuff/trying stuff (mats/supports/platters/belts/pulleys/motors for example).. if thats you, then the P9 is a great platform.. if its not you the CA is better.

Peter

[Blueshirt1]

Budget is sub 2K. I don't have much vinyl to justify more then that.

Difficult to say I would not be interesting in tweaking but I kinda doubt I will. Partly because I just don't understand it. I could learn but then again do I really want to open that can of worms money-wise.

So guess that that leads me back to the CA huh?

[Letitroll98]

The Clearaudio product will be very easy to set up and use, it's all done at the factory for you.  The P9 will be a far superior product with much higher SQ, but being used may require some knowledge about set up.  I think your decision depends on how fast you think your learning curve will be for vinyl.  Are you handy with tools and instruments in general, or you the all thumbs kinda guy?  If you're that confident fellow, definitely the Rega.

[roscoeiii]

I would go with the P9. Better sounding table by most accounts. And you can get assistance from the fine folks here with any potential tweaking that may be necessary.

[Blueshirt1]

Thanks all,

But don't you think 1500 euros for a 15yr old P9 with the older arm and no cart is a bit too much?

[neobop]

Thanks all,

But don't you think 1500 euros for a 15yr old P9 with the older arm and no cart is a bit too much?

Of course it's not worth it, especially to you.  You're afraid of it, and rightfully so.  Do you want to spend your time upgrading or tweaking a 15 yr old discontinued table and arm, or play records?  It's not like it was manufactured a couple of years ago with an RB 1000, ceramic platter, later power supply etc etc.  Can you check out an old table to make sure everything is working as it should?  You'd be on your own regarding any warranty or dealer support. 

"The Transcriptors Skeleton for the same price looks amazing but that's from the '70. I don't even know how to balance and arm, align or install a cartridge on a TT. I think I would be in a word of trouble with that." 

I agree, and much of the same applies to the Rega as well. To that you can add shimming the arm or headshell and selecting a suitable cartridge.  I don't know what a new Rega costs in Europe, but by the time you do a couple of upgrades on a $2K used P9, you probably could have bought a bran new RP8. Even if the P9 was half the price you should consider objectives and alternatives - what's it going to take to get it to the point where you can just enjoy it and deal with all the other things associated with your record collection.
neo

[Blueshirt1]

Neo,

Well said. I am afraid of it and quite frankly you are right, its not where I want to invest my time right now. I am building a system from scratch and mostly concentrating on High Rez digital files. But living in France I have been able to find such great vinyl cheap!!! So I stared buying some. I dont have the nostalgia that some people have as my age is 40 but was always interest is hearing it. Up until now I never had a system good enough to warrant this "luxury".  But when I A/B my digital to my TT (Rega RP1) I always prefer the digital sound better. So I know that the RP1 is my weak link, or at least inferior to my digital.

I think I am going to take a step back and reanalyze how much I would have to conceivable spend on a TT to approach the sound of my digital. And then ask if it is really worth it.

Thanks again

[neobop]

It wasn't my intention to talk you out of a new record player, but you have to do what's right for you, and your situation.  Building a system requires a lot of effort, decisions and money, maybe sometime in the future you'll be ready to reconsider.  Good record players are expensive and record cleaning/maintenance is a necessity.  I know you have yet to realize the potential, but once thing are set up and you're ready to spin a clean record on decent machine, I think you'll be pleased.  That's the object of all this, deriving pleasure from reproduced music.  Analog and digital is not an either/or proposition.
neo

[Blueshirt1]

Understood.

Do you think the Clearaudio Concept would give me a better understanding of analog with my new system now? But without the worries. Then I can decide down the road once everything is broken in and step up to start looking at different TT that I can learn on.

Not sure I even listed my system:
Merlin VSM Masters
Ars Sonum Fila
Bryston BDP2
Lampizator DAC lvl3
Virture Audip cable (for now, will probably go to Cardas)
Rega RP1
Pro-Ject Phono Box MM

[rooze]

I've just been through a similar process - I wanted to get back into vinyl after a long break from it, and was a little concerned over where I needed to pitch price-wise to have something of sufficient SQ to hopefully improve over CD, and therefore justify the investment.

After looking at a LOT of TT's on the used markets, I finally opted for a Clearaudio. It isn't the Concept but it does have the Satisfy arm and is pretty much set and forget, once you have it dialed-in to your liking.

I've underlined the last part because this was not a table that gave me what I was looking for out of the box. The TT setup sounded very lean and bright, with insufficient bottom end. I then spent time on forums discovering that the manufacturer recommended 'parallel' setting for VTA wasn't optimal for the Satisfy arm and that it should be lowered by a couple mm at the pivot side to improve bass. That worked. I then used the protractor that came with the TT to check the stylus overhang and found it to be off by 1/8" or more, so that needed adjustment as did the azimuth. I have a Sure Force gauge arriving in the mail this week to reset the VTF, which is needed after any of the other adjustments I made.

But it plays a LOT better now.

My point is - even with a basic TT with few adjustable parameters, you may still need to acquire some basic tools and a little knowledge to get it to integrate well with the rest of your system, and get it to fulfill it's SQ potential.

So I think the key is finding a deck that stays in-tune once setup properly.

Now I have my CA where I need it, I can't envisage having to tinker with it for a long time, which suits me fine. Whereas other types of decks, perhaps those with a sprung plinth/chassis design, may need some regular ongoing attention to stay at their best.

Lastly, with the CA arm and deck, I didn't find adjusting it to be particularly difficult. Just some slow, methodical/careful steps conducted using the appropriate tools.

But it's worth it. And yes, in your position I'd be more inclined to pick something more modern where parts and support are more readily available.

Rooze
PS - I was a little confused as you say this will be your first TT but it appears you already have one?

[neobop]

Budget is sub 2K. I don't have much vinyl to justify more then that.

Difficult to say I would not be interesting in tweaking but I kinda doubt I will. Partly because I just don't understand it. I could learn but then again do I really want to open that can of worms money-wise.

So guess that that leads me back to the CA huh?

A dilemma is usually defined as a difficult choice.  One of the alternatives might include a circular argument or self fulfilling prophecy. I'm not talking about the Rega vs Clearaudio. 

You now have a RP1, Phono Box, and unknown (to us) cart, and a bunch of used records. How do you clean these records, are they quiet?  It could be that you have a gold mine of records there for the taking, but my biggest concern is your reluctance to set-up, tweak, evaluate, and learn.

"Do you think the Clearaudio Concept would give me a better understanding of analog with my new system now? But without the worries. Then I can decide down the road once everything is broken in and step up to start looking at different TT that I can learn on."

I think the best thing would be to use your present set-up to learn. It's really not that hard, and you will hear for yourself the results of getting it right, but more importantly, the only way you'll have a satisfying vinyl experience is to get your hands in the batter and bake it yourself, so to speak.  The sooner you begin, the faster your results.  It's confusing at first, but that's all.

Yes, I think the CA might be a good choice, but considering that a little thing like a dirty stylus can ruin the sound.....
How do you like those Merlins BTW?
neo 

   






 

[doctorcilantro]

I enjoyed your post as many folks will just write off a suggested table without providing any direct experience. I'm looking at picking on of these up for a fair shot, and I heard the AT33EV is a good match. What carts have you tried?

I have an Oyaide MJ-12 mat. Do you use a mat? I wonder if the 5mm height can work with stock arm?

Do you have any footers on out? I might be in a fix with where to put it and was thinking of trying some Herbie's isolators:

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/isobrevw.htm

I've just been through a similar process - I wanted to get back into vinyl after a long break from it, and was a little concerned over where I needed to pitch price-wise to have something of sufficient SQ to hopefully improve over CD, and therefore justify the investment.

After looking at a LOT of TT's on the used markets, I finally opted for a Clearaudio. It isn't the Concept but it does have the Satisfy arm and is pretty much set and forget, once you have it dialed-in to your liking.

I've underlined the last part because this was not a table that gave me what I was looking for out of the box. The TT setup sounded very lean and bright, with insufficient bottom end. I then spent time on forums discovering that the manufacturer recommended 'parallel' setting for VTA wasn't optimal for the Satisfy arm and that it should be lowered by a couple mm at the pivot side to improve bass. That worked. I then used the protractor that came with the TT to check the stylus overhang and found it to be off by 1/8" or more, so that needed adjustment as did the azimuth. I have a Sure Force gauge arriving in the mail this week to reset the VTF, which is needed after any of the other adjustments I made.

But it plays a LOT better now.

My point is - even with a basic TT with few adjustable parameters, you may still need to acquire some basic tools and a little knowledge to get it to integrate well with the rest of your system, and get it to fulfill it's SQ potential.

So I think the key is finding a deck that stays in-tune once setup properly.

Now I have my CA where I need it, I can't envisage having to tinker with it for a long time, which suits me fine. Whereas other types of decks, perhaps those with a sprung plinth/chassis design, may need some regular ongoing attention to stay at their best.

Lastly, with the CA arm and deck, I didn't find adjusting it to be particularly difficult. Just some slow, methodical/careful steps conducted using the appropriate tools.

But it's worth it. And yes, in your position I'd be more inclined to pick something more modern where parts and support are more readily available.

Rooze
PS - I was a little confused as you say this will be your first TT but it appears you already have one?

[LM]

I think I am going to take a step back and reanalyze how much I would have to conceivable spend on a TT to approach the sound of my digital. And then ask if it is really worth it.

I think you’ve summed up the nub of your own problem perfectly.

Firstly, you appear to have an excellent digital system and speakers so bettering the digital sound you have will likely take more than a basic TT.  However, ‘approaching’ that sound is a much easier ask though it will still take time and effort.

All the advice that Neo and other have given is spot on and I can only add my slant.  My upgrade path was to modify a good basic TT to a much higher standard though I could have simply bought a better TT.  Yes, the upgrade process provided solid audible improvements that I thought were well worth the final cost.  Nor is it the TT alone that can be improved but a really good cartridge and phono stage can clearly make a big difference.

However, it was the much cheaper or even free alignment, cleaning and fettling etc. advice that I received off these forums that made the real difference to me.  Once I understood that correctly leveling and positioning the TT, great care in alignment and settings such as VTA, VTF and anti-skate plus fastidious record cleaning really gave results that one could readily hear, I was hooked but more importantly, I was having fun.  I would say without hesitation that in the end the tweaking and attention to detail had given me as much or more sound quality improvement as the modifications alone had but one had to be prepared to make the effort.

Will it be worth it to you?  Don’t know but to me it was. TT’s are certainly not plug and play but I had many hundreds of records from my early days that I wanted to play and to sound good.  I have, and enjoy, a great digital front end but overall I do prefer the vinyl analogue sound these days.

[reporter]

I was in the market for a turntable upgrade from my Project Debut 3 starter deck - this vinyl thing is addictive and rewarding, such a warm and enjoyable sound. Anyhow I had a budget of about 1000GBP and Rega were on my list - I found the Rega a little too wooly sounding, and preferred the more precise and detailed sound of the Clearaudio Concept turntable which also came with a decent pre-fitted cartridge, which took the worry out of aligning the thing correctly. May go for a MC cart when mine is worn, but otherwise a fine deck.

[Art_Chicago]

To BlueShort1:
Just curious what the best way to buy vinyl being in France is.  I am planning to visit Avignon in month or so.
thanks