[SteveFord]

Earlier today I had the pleasure of having Marc from Maryland (MGbert) swing by with a set of his "Gunned" MMGs.
I'd never heard a set before so was interested in what the fuss was all about and also how they would compare to the comprably priced 1.7s.  I honestly had no idea.
For starters, we compared them to a set of 20 year old MMGs and, not surprisingly, there really wasn't too much of a comparison.  While I like my MMGs just fine, the modified speakers had much greater detail.  The phrase that springs to mind is clear as a bell - they really are.  My old MMGs are kind of warm and wooly sounding, the Magnestands are clear as a bell.
Rather like the 1.7s so we lugged these bad boys upstairs and hooked them up where my 1.7s normally sit.
Here is one of my patented crappy pictures:

The sound is very similar to the 1.7s although the soundstage is smaller (which is to be expected) and my impression is that dynamics are on a smaller scale as well.  That was no surprise as there's simply less surface area.
Detail retrieval is on par with the 1.7s and the modified MMGs aquitted themselves very well. 
They're very impressive speakers in a small package, there's no two ways about it.

Here's a (hopefully) better shot of the construction technique employed by Mr. Gunn:

My question was given the price, is it worth doing? 
I guess that depends: if you have a small(ish) listening area I would say yes (although the Mini Maggie system is really quite something).
If you have a larger room, the 1.7s would make more sense as they'll produce a larger soundstage and probably go a bit deeper in the bass as well.  Neither speaker is a real bass monster, though, although what they do produce is quite good.
I should mention that when I brought my MMGs upstairs they sounded kind of lost due to the size of the room; Mark's speakers didn't.
Marc brought up the subject of these modified MMGs being louder than stock MMGs but we both agreed it's probably due to there being more midbass - that will make it sound louder even if it really isn't more efficient.
I can't say what percentage of the sonic improvement is brought about by the wood frame and what percentage is attributable to the improved crossover components.  Davey and Kevin would be the ones who could answer that one.
One of the nice things about Marc's speakers is that the design brings the panel up about 8"; he puts them up on blocks at home which brings the center of the panel to ear level which is a good thing. 
For what it's worth, there's my mini review: Mr. Gunn brings about a significant upgrade to the venerable MMG.  They're very impressive. 
I'd like to thank Marc for bringing them by and giving me an opportunity to give them a listen.

[Mr. Orange]

"My question was given the price, is it worth doing? "

I believe it is but then again very biased. I've had my Magnestand MG12 pair since 2007 and I can't ever think of reason to get rid of them. My equipment rack is like a revolving door for gear but those Maggies aren't going anywhere.

[SteveFord]

I'm very impressed by Marc's speakers - they just sounded great from top to bottom.

[MGbert]

I knew Steve would beat me to the punch...

This man has a veritable Magnepan museum - older MMGs, 1.7s upstairs and (in the same room as the MMGs) 20.7s!  So for him to say that the Magnestand MMGs were impressive is truly saying something. 

Except for MMGs, the only other Magnepans I heard previously were MG-12's and 3.6's being Magnestanded (is that a word?) at Mr. Gunn's.  Going into this, I thought that my Magnestand's might sound shouty trying to fill Steve's 50 foot long upstairs room.  They didn't!  They actually sounded really convincing, maybe 90-95% as effective as the 1.7's with only a slightly shorter soundstage. 

The only thing I can add is that the Magnestand MMGs are really nice nearfield; the crossover mod makes the midrange-treble integration sound seamless across the width of the panel, so you lose the feeling of listening to a separate tweeter.  I've never heard the Mini-Maggies, but it seems to me that, even though they are designed to be listened to nearfield, the ribbon tweeter might make it's presence heard (as nice as it is - the ribbon on the 20.7s is SMOOOOOTH).  So I see the Magnestand MMGs as filling a niche for nearfield listening in a small room, yet able to fill a larger space - and they certainly make an impressive visual statement.

MGbert

[SteveFord]

I can answer the bit about the ribbon integration on the Mini Maggies - it's smooth from top to bottom.
There's nothing that jumps out as being out of place (other than the sound is coming from such a ridiculously little rectangle)!

[josh358]

I can answer the bit about the ribbon integration on the Mini Maggies - it's smooth from top to bottom.
There's nothing that jumps out as being out of place (other than the sound is coming from such a ridiculously little rectangle)!

My impression, too, though my listening session was necessarily short.

[MGbert]

My impression, too, though my listening session was necessarily short.

Point well taken; I was talking out of school.  Auditioning the Mini-Maggies is on my list of things to do, although I'm a bit nervous if they really are as good as hyped... I don't want to sell my Gunned MMGs!    OTOH, they could be the ticket for an 11 foot by 11 foot space.

MGbert

[SteveFord]

They're small enough to rig up a cat-proof barrier...

[kevin360]

OTOH, they could be the ticket for an 11 foot by 11 foot space.

I don't know. I imagine what you have right now is outstanding in that space. I know I love my insanely modded MMGs in their nearfield setup. Besides, your speakers look so pretty - ditto that for Mr. Orange (nice setup(s)).

My woodworking skills aren't quite on par with PG's (okay, that's an understatement).

[MGbert]

I don't know. I imagine what you have right now is outstanding in that space. I know I love my insanely modded MMGs in their nearfield setup. Besides, your speakers look so pretty - ditto that for Mr. Orange (nice setup(s)).

My woodworking skills aren't quite on par with PG's (okay, that's an understatement).

Thanks for the kind words, Kevin.  True, my system does have a bit of the head-in-a-vice aspect, but in return you get the effect of wearing the world's greatest headphones; they're the size of the room, and the room's boundaries melt away with the right source material.  Definitely not a polite sounding listening room; brashness is the term that comes to mind.  That could be from a multitude of sins the remainder of my Cheap-and-Cheerful system are perpetrating, and a trained ear to help me prioritize the next upgrades would be very welcome, should any be traveling near the Hagerstown, MD area...

And I certainly "get" your affection for the Gunned 12's, Mr. Orange - they are like family, aren't they?

MGbert

[medium jim]

Thanks for the kind words, Kevin.  True, my system does have a bit of the head-in-a-vice aspect, but in return you get the effect of wearing the world's greatest headphones; they're the size of the room, and the room's boundaries melt away with the right source material.  Definitely not a polite sounding listening room; brashness is the term that comes to mind.  That could be from a multitude of sins the remainder of my Cheap-and-Cheerful system are perpetrating, and a trained ear to help me prioritize the next upgrades would be very welcome, should any be traveling near the Hagerstown, MD area...

And I certainly "get" your affection for the Gunned 12's, Mr. Orange - they are like family, aren't they?

MGbert

All I can say is that it is nice to have a side by side comparison on quality equipment.   It was also nice that Mark trogged them over to Steve's abode for the A/B and stand alone listening. 

Jim

[josh358]

Point well taken; I was talking out of school.  Auditioning the Mini-Maggies is on my list of things to do, although I'm a bit nervous if they really are as good as hyped... I don't want to sell my Gunned MMGs!    OTOH, they could be the ticket for an 11 foot by 11 foot space.

MGbert

They're nothing short of amazing near field. When I tried backing away from the desk, they were still excellent, but some of the magic was gone. So I'm not sure how they'd compare to MMG's in a room the size of yours, if you listened far field. If you listened near field, no contest.

[kevin360]

So I'm not sure how they'd compare to MMG's in a room the size of yours, if you listened far field. If you listened near field, no contest.

Wouldn't the definition of near field be relative to the vertical dimensions of the speaker? In other words, an MMG has a great deal more distance which qualifies as near field than the Minis, and isn't the desk on which the Minis are intended to be placed an integral part of that equation? 

[josh358]

Wouldn't the definition of near field be relative to the vertical dimensions of the speaker? In other words, an MMG has a great deal more distance which qualifies as near field than the Minis, and isn't the desk on which the Minis are intended to be placed an integral part of that equation? 

In concert hall acoustics, the far field is where the hall ambiance contributes more to the sound than the direct sound (which happens surprisingly rapidly -- within the first few rows of the orchestra). The term "near field" as it's applied to near field monitors is a loose adaptation of the cfoncert hall definition. So usually we'll say we're listening near field when we're listening from say five feet or less, minimizing the contributions from the ambient acoustic. And that's true whether the speaker is a Mini Maggie or a Voice of the Theater.

However, from the perspective of wave mechanics and loudspeaker design, you're completely right. In this case, near field depends on source size and wavelength. Actually you have a near field region, a transitional region, and a far field region, and these vary with frequency. A short line source forex will act as a line source in the near field -- with sound pressure falling off as a function of distance -- but as a point source in the far field -- with sound pressure falling off as a function of the square of the distance.

There are others acoustical considerations as well, e.g., the diffraction of the bass around a baffle or enclosure. In the case of the MMG's, you get quite a proximity boost in the bass when listening up close, because you're in the shadow of the speaker. In the case of the Minis, when you move back, vertical tweeter beaming comes into play. Also, returning to the concert hall-inspired definition, you have to consider that power response is more important to the quality of a speaker when you're listening in the far field. Up close, on-axis response predominates. From a distance, power response matters almost as much as on-axis response. The larger full-height Maggies have excellent power response.

Finally, since in far field listening the sound pressure of the Mini Maggies falls off as the square, you lose sensitivity and maximum SPL compared to the larger Maggies, even though they have the same 1 meter sensitivity. So there's a limit on how loud they'll play in that application.

[Davey]

Is he not using mitered joints on the frames any longer?

Dave.

[kevin360]

Is he not using mitered joints on the frames any longer?

I was wondering the same thing. The joinery method on Marc's clearly isn't miter. Either way should be plenty effective and either way looks just as nice.

[kevin360]

In this case, near field depends on source size and wavelength.
In the case of the Minis, when you move back, vertical tweeter beaming comes into play.

I was asking merely in the context of a line source speaker, but you answered the question - thanks. The point I was attempting to make is that whereas sitting ~5' from a pair of MMGs is near field, that would not be the case with a pair of Minis. I am enamored with my MMG/REL hybrids in the near field, as I suspect Marc is with his 'Gunned' MMGs. As fantastic as I'm sure they are, somehow I don't think I'd be quite as WOWed at the same distance from a pair of Minis. However, I sure would like to have ribbon tweeters in my MMGs (I'd just like them to be nice and line source long ).

[josh358]

I was asking merely in the context of a line source speaker, but you answered the question - thanks. The point I was attempting to make is that whereas sitting ~5' from a pair of MMGs is near field, that would not be the case with a pair of Minis. I am enamored with my MMG/REL hybrids in the near field, as I suspect Marc is with his 'Gunned' MMGs. As fantastic as I'm sure they are, somehow I don't think I'd be quite as WOWed at the same distance from a pair of Minis. However, I sure would like to have ribbon tweeters in my MMGs (I'd jut like them to be nice and line source long ).

I gather the Minis are actually at their best at maybe 4'-5'. At least, you put them towards the back of your desk and then the manual says they sound best when you lean back in your chair. I haven't spent enough time with them to be precise.

BTW, I think I forgot that you'd ask about using them in free field as opposed to on a desk. In theory, this should affect several parameters, e.g., Fequal and vertical dispersion. But when I asked Wendell about it quite a while back he said they're fine on stands. The woofers however benefit from boundary reinforcement, e.g., the side of a desk well.

I gather people who put them in small rooms are using them in the far field. What I wonder about is near field listening using stands, in which case they'd behave more like they do on a desk. They're small enough so that you could have a couple of stands in front of a couch. It seems to me it could be great if your application is for single-person listening. My main question would be what to do with the woofer.

[Mr. Orange]

Is he not using mitered joints on the frames any longer?

Dave.

From the Magnestand site: "It can have mitered corners or traditional "square" butted joints. Same cost either way. However I recommend and only do the butt joined corners anymore because the sharp angles of the mitered ones can put the grain in opposition which has shown a tendency of the corners to open up in time as the wood shrinks. (they open in winter when the shrink rate is greatest, and tend to reclose in summer) Butt joints may suffer a slight unevenness at the top at some times in the year but should never get crack openings."

As I said I've had mine since 2007 and I've seen no problems with the mitered corners. 

[Mr. Orange]

And I certainly "get" your affection for the Gunned 12's, Mr. Orange - they are like family, aren't they?

MGbert

Yes I would say you nailed it. There are many things I would get rid of first before selling those and that would include my trike!