Audionut Meeting Thread

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John Chapman

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Audionut Meeting Thread
« on: 9 Feb 2003, 02:07 pm »
Hello!

It was a hoot!! Most fun I've had in a long long time and we hope to make it a semi regular thing. I was a bit frazzled for most of the time - next time I'll get better organized! I was not much help to the goings-on most of the time I just wandered around in a bit of a daze - thanks to you guys who kept the tunes rolling and the gear swapping!

I never did count up exactly how many folks showed up but at one point I tried counting shoes (to figure out how many pizza's to order!) and my guess would be we had about 30 or so audionuts.

Also wanted to say thanks to everyone who came and especially to Bob Reimer and Al Wooley for bringing all the cool speakers to play with (Criterion included!) and to those folks who made the big treks from out of town! We had a few from Seattle and from the interior of BC and from Vancouver Island - all at least several hours away and it was great that you could all make it!

I'll post more about the gear and stuff later on but please feel free to ask questions or if you were at the meeting to post any impressions of stuff or suggestions for the next meeting!


Many Thansk!

John

Marbles

Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #1 on: 9 Feb 2003, 02:40 pm »
Did you have the RM40's set up?

A GRR Alpha comparison with the VMPS RM40 would be high up on my list of things to read about.

Do the Criterions mate well with the Alpha's for an HT setup?  That is Criterions for center and surrounds and Alphas for front R/L.

RAW

Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #2 on: 9 Feb 2003, 03:03 pm »
John I must sya was a blast :D
And I even went home with one less pair.That made the Mrs happy.But not as happy if I would have sold a few more.But every set helps.

For the Q on the criterions on surround.We never got them into Johns HT room.They just stayed in the listening Lab.But I think we could get them to Johns for a review by John if his time permits.
I have had them as Mains in my HT room after I built them for Bob at CSS to take to Johns.Shocking design by Danny of GR.
But I have never pl;aced them in the surround as it stands we have just finished the first set in Canada now.
But I have a first model of the Criterion that uses the M130 driver same G2  and same quality of parts for the xover.And we could get them as a front and rear set and then judge them.But we still need to get the center first.
Anyway just a few words on themBut I think at Johns next meet we can find time to get them in the HT room.

Al

Bob Reimer

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Thanks
« Reply #3 on: 9 Feb 2003, 05:53 pm »
Thanks alot John, it was a good day and I look forward to future events and more interesting comparisons and projects.

Bob

Creative Sound Solutions

Ravi

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Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #4 on: 9 Feb 2003, 10:10 pm »
John, many thanks to you, and for having such great gear to listen to.  It was great fun!  

For those interested, I posted my inpressions of the GR Research Alpha and Criterion in the following thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=1133

Bob, Al, it was a pleasure meeting both of you.  Its great to learn from people who've been in this hobby for a long time.

The Bent pre on display(forgot model), is gonna be a killer.  A pre that adds nothing of its own, has killer dynamics and bass, remote controlled, and has a visual volume indicator.  A brilliant idea.

Thanks again for your hospitality!

John Chapman

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Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #5 on: 10 Feb 2003, 02:14 pm »
Hello!

Back again. Spent the day at a local ski hill yesterday with my son. He wore me out and I could not post last night as I'd hoped to!

Thanks guys for the feedback from the gathering. I will be better prepared next time. Saturday morning when I realized I did not have enough glasses for everyone I had to run out for paper cups and I really should have had name tags for folks! Sorry about that and we'll get them for the next get together. When we used to do these meetings a few years ago we'd get 6 or 8 guys tops and so the name tags never came up!

Anyway it was a lot of fun. The highlight of the day was meeting so many new people and talking audio but I wanted to say a bit about the gear since that's what brought us all together. I'm not likely the best one to comment on the sound as I had only a few quick moments to check stuff out. Most of the time I was yak'n.

We had 2 listening rooms setup. One is my lab/listening room and the other is a multipurpose room that has a theater setup as well.

In the lab we had a sony 7700 as a transport to a perpetual tech combo. The pre-amp was a brand new pre-built TX102 kit (and I mean brand new - the solder was still flowing at about 11:30 that day!). It has all the goodies like silver TX102's and also is the first pre-built with remote control. It was made for a fellow in Seattle and it was great because he actually was able to come up to the meeting and take it home with him.

After the new pre-amp we had the ASL hurracanes and a variety of speakers that Bob (from creativesound.ca) and AL from RAW acoustics had brought along. The Criterion was one of these and as well as a bunch of others most of which used Tagband drivers. I had not heard any of these before and only heard a few on Saturday. The Criterions sounded good and I'd love to have them back for a propper listen sometime. Also AL had a little pair of speakers using a couple of Tagbands per side that sounded way better then it should have! I think I recall it was about $250.00 CDN per pair as a finished speaker (less than $200 US). Pretty cool option on a budget.

Later in the day we had the oportunity put a Berning OTL amp into the system. The fellow who had made the trip from Seattle to pick up his pre-amp was kind enough to bring it along (thanks!). I have always had great respect for Berning as he is one of those original thinkers. The only experience I had with his stuff was a car amp I had a few years back that was based on a design of his (Milbert Amp). The amp was very good and on some of the speakers the adjustable feedback switch had a dramatic affect on the sound - which was fun to play with.  Late in the day we put the Berning amp on the RM40's and for a 70 watt amp it did really well with them - much better than I would have guessed as the RM's like a bit of juice (actually they like a lot of juice).

So the lab was where the gear swapping was taking place! This was my idea as the gear in the theater/listening room is hard to get at. It's in a built in rack and recently I blocked the access to the rear of the rack by installing a Redpoint table in the access coridor. It's a bit tight for the table in there but it isolates it from the room and especially from my 8 year old son and his friends!

In that room we had the redpoint table to Kevin Carters (K&K Audio) phono preamp kit to a TAP system with MK II (but not the latest) TX102's. BTW - Ravi - Thanks for the kind comments on the looks of the TAP. It actually pre-dates the TX102 kits by several years and used to be the resistor based until the transformers came along.  After the TAP we had a pair of ASL 845 PP monoblocks and then the GR Alpha's. Cables are home brew silver based on Chrisvh's design and speaker cable is a home brew silver flat ribbon cable. Same cables are used in the lab.

Most of the day we spun Vinyl in that room but did pop a few cd's that Bob had brought over in later in the day. Some one mentioned on Saturday that there was a guy who was saying the alpha's don't go below 55hz. I'd have to pull out MLSSA and measure them again but I think they go a bit lower than that :wink: . The listenning we did on Saturday was with the 845's on them. When I had the ASL Huricanes on them a while back the low end was absolutlely massive and a lot of fun but we did not try that on Saturday.

The table and phono preamp are very new but I am already enjoying them a lot. I have a long way to go to get it setup well and the cart only has about 25 hours or so on it. Still it was sounding quite good - mostly due to the efforts of a local felow who came by last friday and helped me get it setup properly! Thanks!!

This post is getting too long so I'd better stop now! I'll post answers to some specific questions above in the next post....

Many Thanks!

John Chapman
www.bentaudio.com

John Chapman

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Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #6 on: 10 Feb 2003, 02:37 pm »
Hello!

Me again... To answer some of the specific questions.

Marbles,

RM40's vs. Alpha's? Everyone is curious about that comparison and all I'll say is they both are great and they both are different. Even though they are both large speakers the designs are really not the same at all and sonically they are quite different. To be honest I spend way too much time comparing stuff (different revs of TX102 mostly!). When I go to listen to tunes for pleasure the last thing I get the urge to do is to run from room to room comparing speakers! We only had them setup here late in the day and there were only a few fellows left but they might have some comments. At future meeting maybe we'll get a better chance but I have to say I am not a fan of quick comparisons or 'shootouts'. Too often the 'winner' is maybe not the one you'd rather have in the long run. Like the speakers that were voiced to sound good in a showroom and grab your attention. You really need to spend time with stuff to get a handle on it's strengths. With either the RM40's or Alpha's I can't imagine anyone would not be happy. The amp you intend to use would also maybe factor into the decision - the Alpha's are easier to drive so if you intend on using an existing amp it could be a factor.  

As Al mentioned we did not have the Criterions in the room with the Alpha's. I would never think to use the Criterion as a center with the alpha's. My reason is simple -  I don't like center channels!  I am really the wrong one to comment as I have not had a center channel for many years. Maybe Bob, Al, or Danny would be in a better spot to comment. They'd likely do fine as surrounds where the match would not be as critical as a center channel would be - the designs are very different even though they both use a woofer and a ribbon tweeter.

Ravi,

It was great to meet you! I'd seen your posts for some time and had no idea you were so close by! Thanks again for the kind words on the TAP system. It was fun to design and I'm glad you spotted it. I tried my best not to make this a 'Bent Audio' event as that's not what it was meant to be at all.  A few of you guys forced me to talk about my stuff though - what could I do...

Many Thansk!

John

RAW

Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #7 on: 10 Feb 2003, 08:48 pm »
John
On the TB stuff I was showing.
Those were the MTM using the 657S and 25-302S tweeter.
These were a one pair of only.
They cost me more than that to build but I was just dumping them off.And at $250.00 CND I still can not believe I took them home.Since they seamed to be the big hit that I got all the comments on.
I can not make these as Nuera will not sell stock to me and they are the only spot to get the 657S.
I had entened for the MTM and a MT to go full out as a line for my RAW ACOUSTICS to sell.But a falling out with my old partner.(which I did not find out till I was told from a 3rd party) that I was never going to get anymore product from NUERA.
So all my hard work is sitting on the MTM and I have no way of getting 400 drivers and continue.
So they are a one of a kind ready for the production run.


As for the Criterions as a center I am not 100% talked into them as a center but, Danny is from what I was told working on a center for Bob.
And to be a far judgement using them in a HT room there will only be a comparison if there is 5 or 6 in the same room.As this would be a proper way to tell the out put of them for HT use.
A single pair used as mains and a mix around the rest is no proper way to test them.
And at this time Bob only has a single set built for Canada to try.

Just my 2 cents.

And John thanks again for the food and the large playhouse to walk around 8)  8)

John Chapman

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Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #8 on: 10 Feb 2003, 09:21 pm »
Hello!

I heard a few of the speakers you had with you Saturday  but the 'cheapies' that I recall had 2 drivers per side and were quite small. We may have guessed the $250.00 figure from the parts cost as we talked about them - Anyway pretty surprising for the price!

Thansk!

John

RAW

Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #9 on: 10 Feb 2003, 09:32 pm »
Yes got you.
Those were the ELF 1.5
And the other unfinished 1.5 is the super ELF.That one I had only the single cabinet ready.I do think that is the one you listened to in the chair.
But the ELF 1.5 was finished in Black and I had a set of them.

Cost $165.00 USD per set finished in Black

Yes those little 3" are just unreal :mrgreen:

Brad

Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #10 on: 10 Feb 2003, 09:50 pm »
Any basic specs on the 1.5's? :?:  :?:

Freq resp?
Impedance?
Power handling?

I'm pretty sold on the full range driver idea.
I am going to move my Fisher 800c to a 2nd system and have been looking for an appropriate pair of speakers.  About 30wpc of 7591 goodness to drive them with.

$165 is a good match for my budget   :D
What is your shipping charge to the lower 48?

RAW

Audionut Meeting Thread
« Reply #11 on: 11 Feb 2003, 03:35 am »
Power
Well I am running my 100watt Yamaha reciever on them and they are very happy.
The drivers are rated at 30wtts.
But they do very very well
4 Ohms is the rating and on the responce I will send you the file as I just have not loaded them on line.
As I want to use Johns MLSA for that as Speaker Work Shop people look away at that program but it works 100% and with a A&B test measuring the ELFs which we are doing at Johns in the AM I will see how they compare to SWS measurment.
But I have them measured and if anyone wants the info just drop me a line.
Shipping to the lower USA $22.50 insured Mail

Al
Look at my DIY site and you will see them on the pile of speakers.

http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/wrnch2/diyspeakerbuilding/