[marjrho]

I know this is a hi-rez circle, and my quesiton pertains to some DAC's which are not hi-rez, but for the lack of a more appropriate digital circle, here is my thread.  I am looking to add a DAC to my system, which includes a Musical Fidelty A5 cd player, and from time to time, my ipod.  I have been considering the following DAC's: MHDT Havana, Peachtree Dac-it, Musical Fidelity M1, Rega DAC, and the Channel Islands VDA-2. Out of these, I am most intrigued by what I have read about the Havana and the Dac-it.  I am looking to buy used, so anything up to $550 is about where my budget is.

The rest of my system includes Nola Viper IIa speakers, Emotiva UPA-1 mono-blocks, and (arriving today, finally!) Dehavilland Ultraverve 3 preamp.

Any thoughts on these DAC's, good, bad or otherwise?  Thanks.

Mark

[ted_b]

Mark,
Yes, the DAC category has no home but here.    But that's ok cuz for $500 you can have HiRez all you want!!  I'd look at:
* Parasound Z DAC ($449, online Audio Advisor has great 30 day policy).  A buddy has one on trial and LOVES it
* (the tiny new Audioquest and Meridian DACs are $300-ish but USB only, so no go for you specifically cuz you need coax/toslink for your source)

The ones you list are good candidates too.  Lemme think more on this....

[geowak]

I have both the Benchmark USB Dac1 and the Schiit Audio Bifrost Dac.
The Bifrost is a simple, great sounding neutral Dac that gives
85% of the performance as the Benchmark at 1/3 the price. You can get it
with USB for under your budget. Rave reviews on this made in USA Dac.

[ted_b]

I have both the Benchmark USB Dac1 and the Schiit Audio Bifrost Dac.
The Bifrost is a simple, great sounding neutral Dac that gives
85% of the performance as the Benchmark at 1/3 the price. You can get it
with USB for under your budget. Rave reviews on this made in USA Dac.

He does not need USB, but thanks for the post. 

[geowak]

He does not need USB, but thanks for the post.

Even better as Schiit offers the non-usb version of the Bifrost for $100 less! Just trying to give the OP options. Mine is the non-usb and I think it's first rate for the $$

[K Shep]

* Parasound Z DAC ($449, online Audio Advisor has great 30 day policy).  A buddy has one on trial and LOVES it

+1 my Z-Dac is fantastic.  Be sure to look at the silver model in lieu of the black.

[ted_b]

+1 my Z-Dac is fantastic.  Be sure to look at the silver model in lieu of the black.

Yes, it's designed by Holm (DSPeaker) and uses the same guts as the mega $$ Rowland DAC.

[marjrho]

Thanks for the responses and the suggestion of the zdac. (yet another DAC to consider!  ) At any rate, since the zdac has been suggested, I feel compelled to raise another question, although I prefer not to as it appears to be highly debated according to what I have read. 

Well, here it goes, does a non oversampling dac provide any sonic benefits over dacs that oversample or upsample, or is it merely a listener's preference?  I ask because both the Havana and the Dac-it have been described as "organic" and 'Natural," and less digital, which I have attributed to their NOS configuration.

[ted_b]

Thanks for the responses and the suggestion of the zdac. (yet another DAC to consider!  ) At any rate, since the zdac has been suggested, I feel compelled to raise another question, although I prefer not to as it appears to be highly debated according to what I have read. 

Well, here it goes, does a non oversampling dac provide any sonic benefits over dacs that oversample or upsample, or is it merely a listener's preference?  I ask because both the Havana and the Dac-it have been described as "organic" and 'Natural," and less digital, which I have attributed to their NOS configuration.

My answer is always this: it depends.  it really depends on the implementation.  NOS DACs can have a sound of their own, but some NOS DACS suck, and others are beautiful, same as delta sigma, ladder DACs, ring DACs, proprietary one bit, etc.  This next statement is a gross over-generality, but I have found that only-average NOS DACs can sound rolled off, while the same middle of the road average upsampling DACS can sound harsh.  Their best versions sound great, both of them.

[WC]

Mark,
Yes, the DAC category has no home but here.    But that's ok cuz for $500 you can have HiRez all you want!!  I'd look at:
* Parasound Z DAC ($449, online Audio Advisor has great 30 day policy).  A buddy has one on trial and LOVES it
* (the tiny new Audioquest and Meridian DACs are $300-ish but USB only, so no go for you specifically cuz you need coax/toslink for your source)

The ones you list are good candidates too.  Lemme think more on this....

The Z-Dac looks good, but for me the USB only going to 96k took it off my list. The SPDIF connections are 192k.

[ted_b]

The Z-Dac looks good, but for me the USB only going to 96k took it off my list. The SPDIF connections are 192k.

Again...if USB was an issue here I would NOT have recommended the Z for his under-$500 choice, I would have recommended the Meridian...but the OP has no use currently for USB.  he has a cd player as a source.

[tabrink]

I know this is a hi-rez circle, and my quesiton pertains to some DAC's which are not hi-rez, but for the lack of a more appropriate digital circle, here is my thread.  I am looking to add a DAC to my system, which includes a Musical Fidelty A5 cd player, and from time to time, my ipod.  I have been considering the following DAC's: MHDT Havana, Peachtree Dac-it, Musical Fidelity M1, Rega DAC, and the Channel Islands VDA-2. Out of these, I am most intrigued by what I have read about the Havana and the Dac-it.  I am looking to buy used, so anything up to $550 is about where my budget is.

The rest of my system includes Nola Viper IIa speakers, Emotiva UPA-1 mono-blocks, and (arriving today, finally!) Dehavilland Ultraverve 3 preamp.

Any thoughts on these DAC's, good, bad or otherwise?  Thanks.

Mark

My Audio by VanAlstine Vision Hybrid DAC got me off the DAC merry go round!  And I have not strayed or wanted too! My best audio purchase to date!

[rpf]

Check out the Micromega MyDac. At $400 list, $370 online, it is an exceptional performer. A dealer friend from whom I purchased it said he liked it better than the Dac-it (which he also carries). According to him, the latter is more forward sounding, the former more musical.

I haven't heard the DAC-it, but I heard the MyDac in a friend's system that I am very familiar with and both of us enjoyed it very much. Found it doesn't do anything wrong, is refined and very musical. At home I have only heard it in my headphone system, with a new headphone amp, as my main system is packed up at the moment.

The reviews correctly state that the bass is soft and somewhat undefined but upgrading the power cord improves the dynamics and the bass substantially. I'm using an inexpensive Pangea AC14SE (C7 IEC) with excellent results.

My reference DAC is a highly modded Eastern Electric Minimax DAC. I have previously owned a modded Havana, a modded Music Hall 25.2, an Audio Logic MXL 24 and a modded Musical Fidelity TriVista 21.

[WC]

Again...if USB was an issue here I would NOT have recommended the Z for his under-$500 choice, I would have recommended the Meridian...but the OP has no use currently for USB.  he has a cd player as a source.

I know the original poster is only interested in SPDIF at this time. Even though the OP is not going to be using the USB immediately, he may eventually want to try out a music server in the future so he should at least be aware the USB doesn't go to 192k.

[abernardi]

marjrho,
  Welcome to the DAC jungle   

  My first question to you would be, are you going to be sticking just with the CD player and iPod for the next few years?  If the answer is yes, then you don't have to worry about USB, which opens you up to a lot of used DACs.  I've found as a "general" rule (with many exceptions) that I usually end up paying about half the list price for a used piece of gear that's a couple years old or so.
 
  The second question is, are you planning to download hirez files and put them on the iPod?  If so, then you'll need a DAC that can handle them.  If not, you'll be able to find even more and older DACs with excellent sound quality.

  Research is the hard part because you'll find raves and pans of practically every DAC out there.  I think ted_b got it right about the NOS vs oversampling.  Another common comment you hear is that the not very good delta sigma based DACs often sound lifeless or artificial, while the older, but good ladder based DACs sound more analogue, realistic, natural, relaxed, easier on the ears, etc.  I've also seen comments that the not so good ladder DACs are rolled off on the high end, lack detail, etc. while the better sigma delta DACs reveal more detail, air, separation of instruments, etc.  And then there are the custom chipsets and on and on...

  Of course none of that really matters because there's so much more to making a great DAC than the a chipset and you'll find excellent DACs using every kind of chip.

  I've recently been playing around with DACs.  I currently use an Audio-gd mid-priced DAC that I'm very happy with, but I know there's room for improvement, so I picked up an ESS Sabre based DAC (the Sabre was all the rage a year or two ago, it's still riding that wave).  It was a DIY build with excellent components and it sounded flat and dry in my system. 
  I just picked up a used Tranquility SE and am very curious to see how that does in my system because this is a NOS DAC, so no hirez files for this, and I LOVE my hirez files.  But I've heard such great things about this DAC that it may actually deliver more bang for the buck than an inexpensive DAC that can do hirez. 
  I'm also keenly interested in trying one of the newer Audio-gd PCM1704 based DACS.  Even though it's an older ladder type chip, they seem to be making a come back with several DAC manufacturers.

  So, you can see how crazy this obsession can get 

  I think the bottom line is to find the right DAC for your ear and your system.  If you're into detail, detail, detail - then go for something with that character for example.  Also, if your system is a little bright for your taste, then a warmer DAC can work wonders and vice versa.

  Good luck with it! 

[wisnon]

Very good advice. You can also get hires non-OS Dacs as well.
The custom FPGAs are also an interesting avenue to pursue.

I have one, the chord Qute that I am checking out and of course I have my favorite, a multibit tube Lampi Dac (unbeatable with PCM to me so far).

How is your speaker working out.

[marjrho]

Wow!  I had no idea of the can of worms I opened up, but thanks for the responses!

At any rate, I'm really a traditional cd guy, so I doubt that I will go the music server route, although I do understand its convenience.  I use my Ipod more while commuting to work, than I do listening to it at home, but I do use it  when entertaining.  But I can still hook up the ipod dock to the DAC via coax cable.  The bottom line is, while I don't need a USB DAC, having the capability opens up options for future upgrades.

Regarding the sound, I like detail and extended highs, but I cant take edgy or piercing highs, so, a hint of warmth is preferred.  I've just added a Dehavilland Ultraverve 3 preamp to my system, and I am getting no brightness at all.

[marjrho]

I search of a decent DAC, I took a look at the specs of my Musical Fidelity A5 cd player, and I am now wondering if an outboard DAC in the $500 range will give me improved sound.  The MF retailed for $2,500 in 2005, and still regularly lists for between $800 and $1,000 on the used market.  Its a 24 bit upsampling player, but does not do SACD.  It was well-regarded and well-reviewed when it was released, and it still performs extremely well.

I know that only way to know for sure is to compare the DAC's, but am I making a mistake to think that a new entry level budget DAC can outperform the DAC in my cd player?

 

[ted_b]

I know that only way to know for sure is to compare the DAC's, but am I making a mistake to think that a new entry level budget DAC can outperform the DAC in my cd player?

To restate what has already been said, keep in mind that part of the allure of computer audio in the first place is to get away from spinning discs, and to have your entire ripped library at your ipad remote fingertips.  So this means ripping your library; so then this means a new DAC cuz the DAC in your cd player will not access these files.

What I'm getting at is: what is your goal?  If it is simply better sound, then be aware that the newer inexpensive DACs may not do it for you.  Yes, they have greater specs for sample rates, etc but may not have the quality and sophistication of the downstream analog stage that you are used to in a $2500 cd player.  There is no free lunch.   But there are free samples....so get a DAC, on loan or 30 day return trial, that has a digital connection (spdif, toslink) for your cd player out, and that also has a USB connection, and try a couple tracks both ways (no need to rip your entire library if your favorite DAC is stuck in your cd player).

[marjrho]

Ted, that's probably the best and most logical answer to any of my postings that I have ever received.

While I have a fair amount of my cd's ripped to my ipod, I doubt that I will eventually rip the entire collection. And whenever I listen to my ipod in my two channel rig, the difference in sound quality compared to my cd player is quite obvious.  So I guess now the question really is, do I buy a DAC for the few times that I choose to listen to my ipod in my 2 channel rig?  I don't have that answer right now.  I have to think about it.

Thanks for the post.