Rumble

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WireNut

Rumble
« on: 13 Feb 2013, 08:03 pm »
Rumble. I think I’m experiencing rumble in my Pioneer PL-117D turntable. With the stylus off the album and the table spinning everything’s dead quiet. When I put the stylus on ANY album there’s a very low volume / low frequency sound mostly noticeable between tracks. Since I only hear it with the stylus on the album, what's most likely causing it?

Steve

Ericus Rex

Re: Rumble
« Reply #1 on: 13 Feb 2013, 09:21 pm »
Is the speaker pulsating like mad during this rumble?

WireNut

Re: Rumble
« Reply #2 on: 13 Feb 2013, 10:06 pm »
Is the speaker pulsating like mad during this rumble?

No. Some people wouldn't notice it while playing an album unless I pointed it out. After the stylus lifts up it's easy to tell it was there. It takes away from a Black or quiet background. You can tell it's present between tracks or blanks spots on a album. 

JackD

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #3 on: 13 Feb 2013, 10:09 pm »
Is the TT in close proximity to the speakers or a sub?

WireNut

Re: Rumble
« Reply #4 on: 13 Feb 2013, 10:14 pm »
Is the TT in close proximity to the speakers or a sub?

Hi JackD. I ordered the stylus you suggested, it should be here tomorrow. The TT is about 2 feet away from my MTM cabs.
I didn't experience this with my Technics from what I recall.

WireNut

Re: Rumble
« Reply #5 on: 13 Feb 2013, 10:18 pm »
I like the Pioneer but I think I'll pull the Stanton and try it on my Technics and see what happens.

JackD

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #6 on: 13 Feb 2013, 10:27 pm »
Steve

That may be a little close if the rack is picking up any type of vibration from the speaker cabinets.  This would be may worse if you are one a suspended or wood floor.  Most Technics DD tables are pretty insensative to vibration.  Other brands not always so much especially if it is a suspended chassis of some type.  Just looked at the SM on VE and couldn't really tell much.  You may try putting some type of absorbing material like a Vibrapod under the feet and see if that helps.  I assume you oiled the motor bearing when you got it.

Jack

WireNut

Re: Rumble
« Reply #7 on: 13 Feb 2013, 10:35 pm »
That may be a little close if the rack is picking up any type of vibration from the speaker cabinets.  This would be may worse if you are one a suspended or wood floor.  Most Technics DD tables are pretty insensative to vibration.  Other brands not always so much especially if it is a suspended chassis of some type.  Just looked at the SM on VE and couldn't really tell much.  You may try putting some type of absorbing material like a Vibrapod under the feet and see if that helps.  I assume you oiled the motor bearing when you got it.

I'm on a concrete floor using a very heavy steel welded rack. I didn't oil anything. Haven't been under the hood yet. Probably could use a good cleaning and lube job.

SteveFord

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #8 on: 13 Feb 2013, 10:58 pm »
Uneeda lube job on the bearings.

WireNut

Re: Rumble
« Reply #9 on: 13 Feb 2013, 11:02 pm »
Uneeda lube job on the bearings.

K. I'll get on it. What bearing oil you all use?

SteveFord

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #10 on: 13 Feb 2013, 11:27 pm »
If you haven't already, join vinylengine.com and then go into the Library section and pull up the owner's manuals for the PL-115D.
From what I understand that's the same thing you have except it's semi automatic.

The manual just says Accessory Oil but sewing machine oil, 3 in 1, any light grade oil should be okay.

You might enjoy this article:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/turntables.htm

WireNut

Re: Rumble
« Reply #11 on: 13 Feb 2013, 11:47 pm »
If you haven't already, join vinylengine.com and then go into the Library section and pull up the owner's manuals for the PL-115D.
From what I understand that's the same thing you have except it's semi automatic.
The manual just says Accessory Oil but sewing machine oil, 3 in 1, any light grade oil should be okay.
You might enjoy this article:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/turntables.htm

Thanks SteveFord.

Joined VE and got the manual. :thumb:

JackD

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #12 on: 13 Feb 2013, 11:52 pm »
Steve

The Service Manual for that table is on VE.  Sewing machine oil is better than regular old 3 in 1 as it has additives in it.  There is a 3 in 1 that is for electrical motors but it is in a different color can.  You should be able to find sewing machine oil at Walmart where they sell material and sewing supplies.  But if you have the volume up fairly loud you will hear some noise between tracks on a belt drive from the mechanism, especially on a table of that age.  Also if you swap tables don't forget to change the overhang from the Pioneers 49mm to the Technics 52mm.  When you take the platter off to do the oiling it wouldn't hurt to put the belt in a ziploc with talcum powder.

SteveFord

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #13 on: 13 Feb 2013, 11:58 pm »
I checked that 117 manual but it was all about the incredibly complicated mechanisms but didn't say beans about the one thing I was interested in finding. 
Good to know about Wally World, I never would have thought of looking there.

JackD

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #14 on: 14 Feb 2013, 12:29 am »
Yes Wallyworld should have Singer sewing machine oil or a brand from whatever machine they are selling.  I bought my synthetic oil with the needle applicator at a hobby store that sold RC cars, planes, etc.  They also usually have the silicone oil that you need for the cueing mechanisms.  I thought it strange too, that VE had a service manual for the PL-117D, but no owners manual.  Didn't look at it earlier for lubrication as I was just looking for clues about the suspension.  Your right though all of those similar models should be the same in terms of maintenance.  Usually the oiling point is marked.  I have a Hitachi belt drive from that era that is very similar to the Pioneer that even with a new belt and lubrication still makes some noise between tracks from the mechanism. I sold it to a college student looking to get into vinyl for the first time and he doesn't hear it at all, but his system is very different than mine or yours or Wirenut's.

BobM

Re: Rumble
« Reply #15 on: 14 Feb 2013, 02:09 pm »
I also had a rumble issue a few years ago. Here's how to locate the problem.

First - make sure your records are not warped and everything is adjusted properly, including cartridge loading.  If you use tubes make sure they aren;t the culprit. If it doesn;t occur on digital then it's probably not an amp or preamp or subwoofer or speaker issue. If that doesn't resolve it ...

Second - try moving first the phono stage, then the TT to different locations - preferably something massive and sturdy or onto a concrete floor if possible. This will eliminate any rack related vibration issues. If that doesn't resolve it ...

Third - Check out the compliance of your cartridge vs the arm (tables and info at vinylengine.com will help). You may have a resonance issue where they just don;t mate very well. This was my problem - a different cartridge and it all went away.

Be methodical and you can trace the problem back and identify the culprit. Be a detective. Good luck.

decal

Re: Rumble
« Reply #16 on: 14 Feb 2013, 02:21 pm »
Did somebody say rumble?




Quiet Earth

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Re: Rumble
« Reply #17 on: 14 Feb 2013, 06:23 pm »
If you think the problem lies within the turntable itself, headphones are a good tool for diagnosing rumble and listening for changes as you make adjustments.