Aksa 55 with inefficient speakers?

OBF · « **on:** 29 Jun 2004, 09:10 pm »

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on running Ellis 1801s with a 55N? I did a search and all I find is a 100-Ellis combo with good results. The speakers are rated at 83-84 sensitivity but this is a "real" number and not inflated for marketing, so maybe comparable to an 86 commercial speaker. My room is decent sized and I have a tube pre and also a passive Bent. Also, while I know the Aksa 100N would be the ideal way to go, I don't plan to build one so it will have to be the 55N or not at all.

Thanks for any help or advice.

AKSA · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Jun 2004, 10:56 pm »

If the room is smallish, your listening style is not too loud, and your speakers are less than 8R but more than 4R, then the 55W AKSA will be adequate.

This is pushing it, however, because if the speakers are genuinely 83dB/watt/metre, they need a LOT of power to light up.

If you like Rock 'n Roll or large orchestral music, I'd say no. For any other genre, it's marginal, but OK.

That said, the difference between the 55W and the 100W on most music at moderate volume is quite obvious. There is an obvious enhancement in headroom, which is very noticeable on 'big' music.

Cheers,

Hugh

Carlman · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 12:47 am »

I have the opposite problem... I already own a 100 watt AKSA, have very efficient, easy load speakers (89db) and a very small, lively room. I'm using an 8-watt tube amp now that sounds incredible. The speakers are Green Mountain Europa's.

If you want to swap speakers for a few weeks, I'd be up for it!

(to try with the 100 watts instead of the 8 )

I've always wanted to hear the Ellis 1801's.... However, I'm essentially in a nearfield environment... and haven't heard anyone use them that way.

In any case, I would think the 55 would be a bit taxed at that range of efficiency in a medium-sized room. I listened to GR Research's Criterion (85db) and the 100watt had no problem driving them but I think it would've sounded a little weak with less power.

My issue is that I used to have a really big room and now I don't. All the gear I've bought in the past was for a big room with a big sound. Now my goal is to get it a bit smaller and finessing the sound to be accurate in its space.

YMMV... I've never heard the 55 but I want to!

-C

Brad · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 12:55 am »

Sorry to go off topic, but it sounds like Carl needs to build a 25W AKSA N+ to go with the Europas.

and maybe an extra for some guy in Houston....

Carlman · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 01:31 am »

Quote from: Brad

Sorry to go off topic, but it sounds like Carl needs to build a 25W AKSA N+ to go with the Europas.

and maybe an extra for some guy in Houston....

Only time will tell....

... or

or...

You just never know till you try...

stvnharr · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 02:21 am »

OBF,
I have the experience you are looking for. I've run 1801's with a 60w tube amp, and had plenty of juice. You'll get more out of the Aksa 55. Relax, don't worry, listen to the music.
Just don't put your speakers 5 feet out into the room, unless you want the bass to disappear. Don't expect to listen at 100db's either. Since the 1801's weren't designed with either of the above listening options as prefereable, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
The volume knob on either of your preamps will likely be always in the upper half of usage, maybe often at 3/4th's of full. Nothing wrong with that.
The Aksa 100 would give you more headroom, but won't necessarily give you louder music, unless you have a really large room.
BTW, if you go for a 55, get the Nirvana, and give the N+ a thought if you got the dough.

PS. My present speakers are modified 1801's, I added a .5 woofer, giving more bass, a lower impedance, and a little more efficiency. I use a 55N, almost a N+, and have plenty of music. BTW, I have listened to the speakers w/o the .5 woof, making things basically an 1801, and had plenty of music.

Relax, get an Aksa, and listen to some music!!!!!!

Al Garay · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 03:00 am »

OBF,

I think we exchanged e-mails earlier today.

I have an almost identical setup:
* AKSA 100N monoblocks
* BentAudio TX102 transformer based pre-amp (zero gain)
* Ellis 1801b
in a room that is 17 feet wide by 22 feet long and 8 foot tall.

I think you will be pleased with the AKSA 55N. Dave Ellis has said that he considers 50watts minimum. Not all watts are created equal. A friend of mine drives his Ellis 1801s with strong bass and plenty of volume using Transcendent Sound 25Watt OTL amplifier.

Get the AKSA before someone else does.

Al

Rocket · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 03:50 am »

Hi Obf,

Are you considering purchasing the aksa 55 nirvana which was recently advertised here on audiocircle?

If so you should really consider it as the builder seems to have done a very good job assembling the amp. It has a good chassis and the wiring seems pretty good.

good luck.

regards

rod

OBF · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 04:30 am »

Thanks for all the comments. Sounds like it would be good up to a certain point.

I'm on the wrong side of most of Hugh's questions, but I've been using an HK digital receiver as fill in recently and it's rated at something like 60 watts. The 1801s could definitely use more juice, but I'm sure the Aksa 55 is much more robust than the receiver. Although I'd like to, I don't go much above 90db.

Quote from: Rocket

Are you considering purchasing the aksa 55 nirvana which was recently advertised here on audiocircle?

Ya, I asked to be notified when the 2nd one is available soon. I'm sure it's a lot better build than I could do

stvnharr, that's what I was hoping to hear. Thanks.

Al, My room is just a little bigger than yours. I bet those 100Ns are awesome on these speakers! I haven't even gotten to hear the bent yet but I can't wait.

Thanks,
OBF

Al Garay · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Jun 2004, 10:51 pm »

The 1801s sound crappy using the Onkyo receivers that I have heard.

They reveal the improvements you make in your electronics. The AKSA and BentAudio work beautifully together.

Someday, I will want to try the GK1, maybe if Hugh does a roadshow. I don't know of anyone in the Seattle area who has one.

OBF · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Jul 2004, 12:45 am »

Quote from: Al Garay

The 1801s sound crappy using the Onkyo receivers that I have heard.

Al, my normal setup has been an Anthem pre and eAR amp with the 1801s, but I think the Anthem has been the weak link. The HK receiver's been doing stand-in because my amp was damaged. The HK isn't really too bad, but it sounds underpowered and the 1801s are a bit TOO revealing for it to sound as good as my old setup. Either the AKSA or the eAR will eventually be inserted back in its place along with the Bent.

stvnharr · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Jul 2004, 02:11 am »

OBF,
Go for the Aksa, forget the eAR.
You won't be sorry!