One last Super V build

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fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #60 on: 1 Aug 2025, 08:53 pm »
Thx Peter.  I'll check out the glue.  I do have a partial(2/3rds?) can of the Weldwood.  I'll have to check and see what shape it's in. Haven't used it in a while.

I would guess the laminate appearance is originally a photograph of some cherished piece of stone, though it does have a lightening look to it.

The Super V's curvy shape is a tough one for finishing. Veneer(wrapping around edges) isn't an option(for me at least) and that leaves paint.  I've seen (and have a copied record) of  every SV photo posted on the GR Audiocircle since the kit was first offered.  The nicest wings (sides) were auto paint with a high gloss clear over it.  I didn't want to go that route and haven't seen anything similar to what I'm doing..hopefully they'll look good.   

SlushPuppy

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #61 on: 3 Aug 2025, 12:40 am »
I can't wait to see how this turns out!  :thumb:

fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #62 on: 25 Aug 2025, 12:44 pm »
Still at it!

I'll catch things up a bit.

(Peter) I had enough Weldwood contact cement to glue the 4 laminates down, so I used that.  I did check into the water-based contact cement...yikes..they are proud of that stuff$. It would have been much nicer to use than the Weldwood.  The solvent fumes coming off the slabs, in 85+ degree heat, was pretty bad.  I wore a chemical respirator I have and did it in the open air with an exhaust fan blowing the fumes outside (my shop is 24x30x12 with an 18x10 foot garage door and a service door..lots of air exchange).

I used green painters tape around the edges of the slabs before applying the contact cement(pour it on the slab and spread evenly with a 1/8th inch notched trowel) to keep the edges clean.  They need to be clean/smooth for the router bearing when I trim later.



Contact cement applied and drying



..and all 4 laminates applied, and trimmed flush with a flush trim bit. Worked perfectly.



About this time my back was shouting at me to just..give it a rest.  The recent work up to this point involved me setting the internal speaker assemblies (all one piece at this point and getting rather heavy-bulky to handle) on the floor and then humping them off the floor back on to the bench.  After a number of days of doing this 3 or 4 times too many..my back was getting tired. 

With the weather getting back into the 90s(my shop doesn't have AC) and my back somewhat toast..I took a break for a week+.

fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #63 on: 25 Aug 2025, 01:15 pm »
So..what does an audio person do with a sore, but healing, back and time on his hands..while being all amped up (so to speak) on new set of speakers getting close(r) to the finish line?

Well..he walks the dog, he listens to music, he surfs the web on audio forums, he finds something interesting (first mistake) and pulls a thread into further research (second mistake), he says what the heck and does a quick search on hifishark (third mistake), he finds a set of the speakers he's been researching and they're just just 30 miles away! (fourth mistake)...and he buys the speakers (not a mistake at all!).  They were in like new condition from the original owner and I got them for a price I couldn't resist. I always wanted to try a set of planars..so trying them I am.  The speakers are the Eminent Technologies LFT-8b.  I was, and still am(until the SVs are done), running a McCormack DNA-1 amp (tube preamp, tube DAC..) so I have plenty of power for the LFTs.   The LFT installs were an easy plug and play. They're very nice speakers. People generally say that about all the speakers they buy. There's a lot of good sounding equipment out there.

With something new to futz with while healing up for 7-10 days, my back..is back.

I've been a lifelong traditional jazz guy, but I also like small classical and specifically early music, Baroque ensembles. 

If you're a classical lover at all..I'd run, not walk, to your streamer and spin up Christina Pluhar & her ensemble L'Arpeggiata.  Any of the following are excellent:

Ciaccone, Bergamasche e un po’ di Follie

Music for a While - Improvisations on Purcell

Via Crucis

Handel goes Wild

Alla Napoletana

..and there's many more from her group. Wonderful music. Some of their cuts would make great demo music at a show.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2025, 03:36 pm by fishboat »

fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #64 on: 25 Aug 2025, 03:30 pm »
With things back to normal..

Next comes knocking off the square edge on the laminate left by the flush trim bit. If the edge is left square it's not only sharp(easily solved with a laminate or mill file), but the square edge is pretty prone to chipping if it's knocked against something. So, typically, laminate is chamfered with a router bit.  I didn't like the look of a chamfer so I used a very slight cut of an 1/8 inch round over bit.



With the laminate edges finished, I now can get at the hand plane chamfer around the coax area.





..and with that done..a trial run





At this point I finished two additional radius roundovers to the inside edges of the sides.  I didn't take any pics of this as it's hard to see. I did a 1/8th inch roundover for four inches below the coax chamfer(where the sides dip in before coming back out in the lower section of the speaker), just enough to break the edge to look nicer, and a 5/16ths roundover the rest of the way around the inside edge of the sides.  Then came sealing the edges, sanding sealed edges, more sealing, more sanding.....long process and not terribly interesting. It's a tedious process.

Next up was doing the finish sanding (150, 220, 320 grit) on everything that was getting painted.  This includes all the edges of the sides, the inside face of the sides, and the entire internal assembly that would be seen after the sides are installed. I'm using Target Coatings lacquer primer, color coat(black satin), and topcoat. Their tech sheets indicate everything should be sanded to 320..soo..lots of sanding.

The sides and internal assemblies are ready for primer.

BUT..before breaking out that equipment, I figured I better finish the grill frames so they can be painted at the same time. And as long as I was making grill frames, I decided to make a new set of (magnet attached rather than velcro type) grills (4 total, 2 front, 2 back) for the LFTs as well as new side & top trim pieces for the LFTs. I'll be using cherry wood for the new trim pieces.  Making all six frames at one time is much easier as they are made of all the same materials, same dimensions, same machine setups, same paint. 

I started with the tops of the SVs.

I laid out the tops of the grill assembly and rough cut them out.  This is trimming the tops flush with the same template I used wen finishing the radius on the coax baffles.



and a test fit.



The frames will be assembled with half-lap joints and lots of glue. I decided to use MDF for the most of the frame construction.  I milled own  QS oak previously, but even though the wood was quarter-sawn, they still had a slight warp to them.  Rather than fight that, I just remade all the pieces I needed out of straight-flat MDF. Dimensions are 5/8ths x 3/4.  The 3/4 face will lay against the baffles. There's a heavy roundover on the outside edges that pares the 5/8ths down closer to 1/2 inch.  I soaked all the MDF frame pieces with CPES (cold penetrating epoxy) to give the MDF a little more strength.(?)  I've had this CPES for 25 years..I figured it can't hurt and might as well use it up.

I rounded all the edges  of the grill frames on both faces, as needed.  The cross supports are the oak that I cut previously at a thinner dimension (1/2").  After rounding the edges on both faces of the cross pieces they were nearly round and quite small. Much smaller than the ones they're replacing (the grill in the pic is the front grill on the LFT speaker).  The grill frames for the SVs are the same.



Next comes the slot for mounting the grill fabric.  I'll be using the spline/fabric/slot method for mounting the grill fabric. If you've ever replaced  screens on your home windows (I've done this on two homes) this is the same process. I used a 1/8th inch slot cutting bit with a larger bearing.  The bearing reduced the slot depth from 3/8ths inch to 3/16ths.



This just uses a lycra sample I had. It's the same fabric weight as I'll be using (solid black more opaque spandex).



I used a tall fence jig to support the frames as I cut the slots.





One thing I didn't anticipate when I used half laps to assemble the frames is cutting the slot. The slot pretty much cuts the half lap tongue of the cross piece right through. As much as I try to think/plan four steps ahead, some things are missed now and then. This is the worst oversight yet..which is really pretty minor.  I cut the slot as far to the outside as I could to leave sufficient glued surface.  It'll be fine. MDF is dusty to work with, but it is easy to shape and when you use LOTS of glue, it glues up similar to welding two metals together.   



The frames have been rounded over, sanded and sanded and sanded. They too are ready for paint.   



NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 223
Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #65 on: 25 Aug 2025, 04:13 pm »
Your on the right track literally! 

Using the basic method of attaching the grill cloth as I did with my NX-Studio's. The frame sections probably would have been easier to cut, if the channel was cut out, prior to assembling the grill frame. As much as we try to stage our builds, we all go through the trials and tribulations of learning.

My NX-Studio grill frame build, I programmed the CNC and let it do all the work.

Looking good so far, hopefully you've left enough tolerance for spacing, to account for not only the chord spline, but also for the grill cloth and spline to seat nicely into the channel. I practiced on a few pieces of wood scrap, prior to the final cut out on my grill frames, to get the correct tolerances. Not just achieving, only a snug fit, but accounting for removal as well, in the event I wish to replace the grill cloth, from damage, or simply seeking different aesthetic appearance.

Not sure what chord size you used. I personally referenced from this site, since I had very tight tolerances with my build. I used the .125 chord spline.

https://www.phifer.com/screening/diy/sizing/

 :thumb: Looks like you have a good handle on it.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2025, 09:54 pm by NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER »

fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #66 on: 25 Aug 2025, 10:03 pm »
The frame sections probably would have been easier to cut, if the channel was cut out, prior to assembling the grill frame.

Looking good so far, hopefully you've left enough tolerance for spacing, to account for not only the chord spline, but also for the grill cloth and spline to seat nicely into the channel.

Not sure what chord size you used. I personally referenced from this site, since I had very tight tolerances with my build. I used the .125 chord spline.


Actually, cutting the slot was really easy with the frame built up as there was plenty of options to secure the frame to the tall fence (a jig I use in other ways on my table saw) and my hands were far from the bit.  The cutting went very quickly.

I'm using 1/8th (0.125) inch pvc spline made for window screens.  From what I read with research, the slot and spline should be the same size. The slot is also 1/8th inch(x3/16ths deep).  I tried inserting the fabric and spline all the way into a test slot cut (see pic above) and the spline sits just below the face of the grill frame.  I pulled on the fabric and it's seems to be in there tight. I think I'm ok..I hope. If the spline isn't tight enough, it's available in 0.140", (+15 thousandths) and I'd expect that to fit plenty tight.  The fabric is very light weight (92g per sq meter) and paper-thin.

https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/21384

I have a sample of it and it seems nice. Probably 90% opaque and 4 way stretch. Breathing through it is pretty much like breathing without it stretched in front of your mouth.

The only thing that I can see might be an issue is the corners of the slot.  With a round bit, it doesn't cut full depth at the end of the cut.  I cut as close to the outer edge of right angle turns as I could (shy side of an 1/8th inch?), but the depth may not be enough.  I'll try rounding a corner with some spline and fabric tomorrow. If I can't get a good fabric 90 degree turn with the spline in, I may have to cut all the way through the outside of the frame edge to get a full depth slot.  I'd then have to fill in the cut edge of the frame with epoxy filler.  This would actually be very easy.  That Minwax epoxy wood filler is great stuff.  Fast dry-cure and easy to work once cured. It sticks hard to whatever you put it on to. 

Did a lot of misc stuff today and cutting the cherry for the LFT trim. Yet another router bit was delivered today (1/8th upcut straight bit) so I worked out the setup to cut the slot in the SV top grill frame arch. We'll leave that for the morning when I'm as sharp as I ever get. :)

NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 223
Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #67 on: 26 Aug 2025, 01:27 am »
Fishboat,
Prior to going to the last resort of going thru the frame. Do you have a Foredom flex shaft tool, here is a example, https://www.foredom.net/product-category/flex-shaft-combinations-kit-and-sets/sr-motors-combinations-kit-and-sets/  Mine has served me well almost 30 years. Great for modeling or any detail involved work. Quality is superior to Dremel, but you pay the price too.

https://www.foredom.net/product-category/burs-bits-cutters-buffs/
Foredom's are probably one of the best in the professional market, but not cheap.

Another option is a dremel cutting tool? Both have a wide variety of cutting bits that could do the job. This may sound like overkill, if you don't have them now. You'll thank me later.




Regarding the spline, we are on the same page! LOL :thumb: That was my exact thought too, by starting with the smallest diameter .125 spline chord.

When you get closer to finishing, take some spare spline chord, and insert into the channel cut out. That way no paint enters the area, were you want to maintain those tolerances for a proper fit of spline and grill cloth. Otherwise, the paint will change the tolerances, making it a more difficult for installation. Just barely insert the chord spline, so it's flush with top surface. Since the chord spline has a radius, the paint will just barely enter the very top of channel cutout, but that's ok. Then you won't need a sharpy to fill in the bare wood that will be seen.

Just remembered, I used Zinsser Bullseye Sealcoat on my CNC wood cut channels on my speaker grill frames. When properly applied in a thin coat, Zinsser SealCoat will have a negligible impact on the tolerances. It didn't give me any problems seating in the two materials onto the frame.



Fishboat,
I noticed going back viewing your photo's of your frame, is there a particular reason, why your not using corner gussets to strengthen the frame? Since your grill frames have long parellel run's, the corner gussets will really help with reducing  twist and warpage.

Just a thought :popcorn:
 
« Last Edit: 28 Aug 2025, 03:27 am by NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER »

fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #68 on: 26 Aug 2025, 11:06 am »
NX,

Excellent ideas!  Thank you. 

I haven't yet tried the splined corners, but looking at a couple 90 degree slot-corners yesterday, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a problem with a lack of slot depth.

Your Foredom flex shaft tool made me laugh a little.  As handy as it might be, I don't expect that's a tool many people have in their shop...BUT, and this is why I laughed a little, I'll see you the Foredom and raise you it's potential grandfather..I give you a 1950ish 13" Craftsman Bench Top Drill Press with the flexible rotary tool accessory!



It hadn't occurred to me (yet), but this really would be a nice solution to some surgical-level slot depth corner fixing. I'll try it today.

The spline cord "masking" the slot from filling with paint..great idea.  I have tons of the 1/8th inch spline.  Losing a few feet to the painting process is a good use.  I was planning on threading bolts into all the driver-mount threaded inserts I have installed to keep those threads clean, but I hadn't thought much about the grill frames.

The Sealcoat on the frames, and specifically the rear slots, is also a good idea.  I have soaked the frames with penetrating epoxy, but it really soaked in (stuff is like water in viscosity), though I really don't know how much it stiffened the MDF up.  The Sealcoat will also absorb into the MDF, but less so(particularly with the epoxy already in it).  The Sealcoat will stiffen the surface (btdt) and preserve the slot roughness, which is good.  MDF is soft and I don't want the slot to get smooth inside as it'll grip less. Rough and stiff is good.

Gussets..yep, your right. To be honest..never thought about them.  For the SV grill frames, they're smaller with closer together cross bracing(that matches the sub box edges).  I want to keep the grill frame obstructions as few as possible, though they'd be used in the subs area and probably wouldn't make much of a difference.  For the LFT8b speaker grill frames, as long as they are(60"), gussets really are needed and won't impact the sound much, if at all.  The gussets would sit hard against portions the steel panels that have no ribbon installed.  Again, it didn't occur to me for some reason.  I'm blasting through the builds of these frames almost as an afterthought as I want to get the milling work completed so I can get on to painting. September is here and the air is drying out (humidty was 45% yesterday..perfect!) and temps are cooling off to 70ish..perfect again.  The current (OEM) grill frames on the LFTs have no gussets..and the frames are warped a little..go figure.  I have some scrap 1/2 inch thick MDF..I'll make some gussets and install them today.  Easy and fast to do.

Thank you for your suggestions!  They've been very helpful.

fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #69 on: 10 Sep 2025, 12:43 am »
Gussets..I made and installed gussets on all six grill frames.  They do tighten things up a bit.  And they also help with the placement of magnets.



I also used the same setup that I cut the spline slots with to extend the slots slightly past the corners.  It worked well to get a full depth slot in the corners.

Next was cutting the slots in the arc of the grill frame for the baffle area. I used a template bushing, a straight 1/8th inch router bit, and the same template I used to cut the arc in the coax baffle.



..and it went well.



Then came the gussets and magnets install.  I installed six N52 magnets in each SV carcass and grill frame.  I think they'll work well.





With the grill frames and magnets done, there isn't much left in the short term beyond starting the lacquer process. The weather is certainly right(I'll be spraying outside). Today I finished some sanding and taped/masked all the portions of the parts that won't be receiving lacquer.  I masked up the wing inside area to preserve raw MDF as I'll need it for the final glue-up assembly.

I taped the edge of the laminate with auto vinyl striping tape, then used painters tape and some rosin paper to mask the laminate surface.









If the weather behaves tomorrow(wind) then I'll fire up the spray equipment with some primer. 

fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 01:39 pm »
Perfect day! (2 days ago).  72 degrees, cloudy, humidity around 55%, and wind of..about 1mph, all day!

The setup..I have a turntable board that I spray with.  I'm using Target Coatings waterbased lacquer primer (HSF5000 WB Primer/Surfacer/Filler), Raven Black satin color-coat(EMTECH EM6600), and high-build satin topcoat(EMTECH EM7000HBL).  Gun is TP Global with a 2mm needle/nozzle, gun (application) air pressure was 30psi. The black also needs a 2mm N/N at ~20psi, the top coat clear takes a 1.5mm N/N at ~25psi.



The lacquer is nice stuff to work with.  The primer went on great..no drips, no runs, no errors..  It's very forgiving. Soap and water cleanup was a breeze.





..and my helper.  She takes a lot of breaks..and keeps an eye on the horizon for any danger.



Setup to cleanup took be about 6 hours for two coats of primer on everything with sanding(320 grit) in between: four wings, two internal assemblies, and six grill frames. 

Warm temps pushing 80+ are back along with humidity. Foggy this morning. I'll wait until temps cool off a bit and the humidty drops(fall returns).  Black lacquer next.   I never dreamt it would take me most of the summer to build these, but I don't work as many hours/day as I used to.  And it's summer, so doing summer things matters too. 


goggle1824

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 68
Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #71 on: Yesterday at 03:58 pm »
Just wanted to say, this is a super cool update to this build thread, especially for one of the classic models. Thanks for sharing your work and progress!

And great work too, just really well done. 👏🏼🙌🏼

Peter J

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  • Posts: 1951
  • Hmmmm
Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #72 on: Yesterday at 05:12 pm »
Just wanted to say, this is a super cool update to this build thread, especially for one of the classic models. Thanks for sharing your work and progress!

And great work too, just really well done. 👏🏼🙌🏼

I agree, kinda like the goodle days. (That's a John Hartford reference).

And Fishboat, I thought you might like these. Y'all, these are OG American made drill presses. Simple but they embarrass the current Asian equivalents.

Refurbished perhaps 15 years ago




This is up for refurb soon. The deluxe model with center counter pulley and double the speed choices...hot dog!



fishboat

Re: One last Super V build
« Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 06:27 pm »
g-1824,

Thanks.  In the "goodle" days, long ago, I built things faster, but being younger (lacking my current vast worldly experience  :roll:)  I made a few errors along the way.  Errors suck as they take 3x more time to correct them than making something right in the first place.  Remaking a part now and then wasn't too unusual(like the face frame of a bathroom cabinet that had the drawer and door locations reversed 180 degrees..still not sure how I did that). Inevitably I drew a small amount of blood along the way, though never anything serious.  These days I go slower and try to think things all the way through before diving into the next step...and, being a former analyst, I'm a bit anal about researching things. I never reach the paralysis by analysis point, but I can see it sometimes.  I rarely, really can't remember the last time, draw any blood anymore and that's a plus. 


Peter,

Goodle!..John Hartford...as in the John Hartford Festival that happens annually(or did) in the Bill Monroe park in Bean Blossom, IN?  BTDT..fun music fest.

Nice! drill presses.  My floor-stander model is Delta 17 incher from about 1941.  I bought it from the son(in his 70's) of the a guy that worked in the Sunbeam (appliances) plant maintenance shop in Chicago. It's original, no refurbishing.

 
360 pounds of cast iron.

The newest (major) power tool in my shop is a Delta pot belly joiner from around 1960. Table saw..Unisaw from 1953(rebuilt bullet RI motor with the cast iron cover..from high school, machine-causality of the saw stop liability craze..), a 1940-ish Walker Turner 16 inch bandsaw, a '58ish Delta 14 inch cast iron base bandsaw and a 1938 10 inch Delta bandsaw..original condition..great shape.  All the machines are in great to like new condition(..for being 60- 80 years old).

Your Craftsman DP up for a refurbish..my back hurts just looking at it sitting on the low cart.  These things don't look that heavy until you try to lift them..it's like lifting a solid block of cast iron.  Grab one on a bench and give it a good humpf..and it doesn't even move.  Yikes.