[dB Cooper]

I have an account at HDTracks and saw an announcement of the iconic 'Santana Abraxas' in 88/24 and 176/24.

Something told me to do a little googling and found this thread on Computer Audiophile suggesting that the HDTracks version is simply a SACD transfer or an upsampled redbook reissue. In the same thread, there are claims that the MoFi remaster sounds a)Better; and b)Worse than the MoFi remaster. So, did a little googling on that and discovered that there are two MoFi reissues, one released in '92 on CD, one currently on their site in both "ultra disc II gold CD" format and vinyl.

The info on MoFi's website makes the assertion that the original (and all subsequent) release(s) of Abraxas had the channels reversed due to a production error and that the version now on their website is the first to correct this, which implies that this is a different remastering job than the '92 release. (The HDTracks site makes no mention of the reversed channels.)

Can anybody make sense of all these different versions, and any significant differences? Who out there has heard what? I had the original vinyl release (paid $3.29 for it at EJ Korvette's  in '71 which was about what I had left after saving a year to buy my first "real" system), the CBS half-speed mastered vinyl (underwhelming) and the Sony "20 bit" digitally remastered CD (best of the three). Basically I am trying to decide whether dropping coin on it yet again would be worth it. If it is better, I'm in. If not, there are lots of other titles I don't have. I have several apps I could use to play with flipping the channels so that is not the deciding factor.

Thanks

[FullRangeMan]

I have the CBS Abraxas and the Sony Jap Caravanserai SACDs, and the sound quality are stellar.
Much better than any live rock show I had attended and let the CD & vinyl to shame.

Sampling 88kHz are the mid-def standard today used by many classical labels and some rock studios.
24/176 are hi-def for a commercial studio, though not great as DXD(24/352) or DSD 64.
I had some TopMusic SACDs that are remastered in 32/192 from amalogue tapes that are really amazing sound quality.
That not much related to music files thoug.

[dB Cooper]

The CBS one you're talking about is vinyl, correct? Or the CBS-remastered CD?

[FullRangeMan]

My Abraxas CD sound awfull, lots of hiss and compression.
I mean say the CBS Abraxas SACD:
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/709
Its price are inflated now, due it is out of print and no sign of re-release.
The Abraxas SACD had a bit more sound quality than the Caravanseray Jap SACD.

Interesting the Abraxas had the same sound envelope than the Johnny Winter Best of, that also is gem for blues rock fans:
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/729
This Johnny Winter SACD also is a great guitar lesson, this guy really had fast fingers, I was impressed with his playing.
If you can afford a copy now I recommend Abraxas, you will love those bonus tracks.

[dB Cooper]

Guess nobody around here has either of the MoFi Abraxas releases

[BruinAnteater]

I know the thread is pretty old and perhaps dead, but I have both MoFi's Newer Gold CD Abraxas and the HDTracks 88/24. According to Foobar's DR Reports I have:

MoFi Abraxas:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Santana / Abraxas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10      -2.69 dB   -16.22 dB      4:52 01-Singing Winds, Crying Beasts
DR11      -1.04 dB   -14.68 dB      5:20 02-Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen
DR12      -0.21 dB   -14.46 dB      4:20 03-Oye Como Va
DR9       -0.66 dB   -13.57 dB      5:02 04-Incident at Neshabur
DR10      -0.89 dB   -13.40 dB      2:52 05-Se a Cabo
DR10      -0.34 dB   -13.16 dB      4:28 06-Mother's Daughter
DR10      -0.39 dB   -13.03 dB      4:48 07-Samba Pa Ti
DR11      -1.23 dB   -15.03 dB      4:18 08-Hope You're Feeling Better
DR12      -1.49 dB   -17.36 dB      1:30 09-El Nicoya
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  9
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             PCM
================================================================================

HDTracks Abraxas at 88/24:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Santana / Abraxas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10      -2.39 dB   -17.22 dB      4:51 01-Singing Winds, Crying Beasts
DR11      -1.41 dB   -15.94 dB      5:20 02-Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen
DR12      -1.59 dB   -15.60 dB      4:18 03-Oye Como Va
DR10      -1.57 dB   -14.61 dB      5:01 04-Incident At Neshabur
DR11      -1.77 dB   -14.91 dB      2:52 05-Se A Cabo
DR11      -0.19 dB   -14.25 dB      4:29 06-Mother's Daughter
DR10      -2.68 dB   -15.75 dB      4:48 07-Samba Pa Ti
DR12      -0.66 dB   -15.54 dB      4:12 08-Hope You're Feeling Better
DR12      -1.57 dB   -18.15 dB      1:43 09-El Nicoya
DR10      -2.17 dB   -15.38 dB      3:48 10-Se A Cabo
DR11      -1.99 dB   -14.78 dB      4:53 11-Toussaint L'Overture
DR10      -1.83 dB   -14.30 dB      4:57 12-Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  12
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate:        88200 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           3057 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

So on average, both titles have the same average dynamic range, but on these tracks:
04-Incident at Neshabur
05-Se a Cabo
06-Mother's Daughter
08-Hope You're Feeling Better

HDTracks seems to have slightly better DR. Also, it seems that the HDTracks Abraxas isn't 'loud' compared to the MoFi CD. I do love both versions of this album, however on 'Incedent at Neshaburr' I really do think the DR difference is most pronounced, and there seems to be a fuller and more detailed sound. Beyond that one track, I'd say they are pretty equal in quality.

[BruinAnteater]

As an added bonus, I also performed a DR report on the 30th Anniversary Edition released in 1998. On the cover of the CD it say it was 24-bit Digitally Remastered. I've owned this version since about 1999, and I have memories of my 20's from this version  ...I always thought this version was great, but back then I didnt have good equipment so what did I know! I havent listened to this version in a while, so maybe I'll try to A/B/C the three versions late. Anyway, here the report:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Santana / Abraxas - 30Th Anniversary Expanded Remastered
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10      -0.89 dB   -15.03 dB      4:51 01-Singing Winds, Crying Beasts
DR11       0.00 dB   -13.90 dB      5:20 02-Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen
DR12       0.00 dB   -13.60 dB      4:19 03-Oye Como Va
DR10       0.00 dB   -12.47 dB      5:01 04-Incident at Neshabur
DR11      -0.31 dB   -13.11 dB      2:52 05-Se a Cabo
DR10       0.00 dB   -12.39 dB      4:28 06-Mother's Daughter
DR10      -0.04 dB   -13.71 dB      4:48 07-Samba Pa Ti
DR12       0.00 dB   -13.61 dB      4:17 08-Hope You're Feeling Better
DR12       0.00 dB   -16.03 dB      1:40 09-El Nicoya
DR10       0.00 dB   -13.17 dB      3:47 10-Track 10
DR11       0.00 dB   -12.47 dB      4:52 11-Track 11
DR10       0.00 dB   -12.06 dB      4:57 12-Track 12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  12
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           951 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

One thing that is obvious is that this version is much much louder than either the HDTracks and the MoFi version. What does surprise me is that there are several tracks on this version that have a higher dynamic range the the MoFi version.