[SteveRB]

Hello,

I am looking for a MC phonostage pre amp with step up. I would like it to be fairly cartridge independent. I would like it to cost less than $1000.

I am ok with used gear. I am ok with tubes or ss. I would like the unit to have a proper SUT.

There seem to be a fair number of options; I'm currently considering Soundsmith MCP2 and Allnic 1200.

Any recommendations? Anyone selling anything close?

Thanks!

[roscoeiii]

Any particular reason you want a SUT in your MC phonostage?

I don't have experience with SUTs, but my understanding is that SUTs are very cart-dependent, and that a good deal of cart-SUT matching needs to go on. So I am not sure you can have both the SUT and be fairly cart independent.

And we are missing important details about what your listening preferences are, both in terms of genre, and what the most important characteristics of music are to you.

EAR phono stages for example are marvelous according to some listeners' tastes and you will read many raves about them. For others, EAR is overly warm and slow, even compared to other tubed phono stages.

[roscoeiii]

I have an Avid Pulsus, which does not have an SUT and is out of your price range unless you find a great used deal on one.

But based on my experience with the Pulsus, I'd look into their Avid Pellar. Sold by Music Direct if there isn't a dealer nearby. They have a great return policy, so you could give it a shot for just the cost of shipping. No substitute for an audition, preferably in your own system.

[SteveRB]

And we are missing important details about what your listening preferences are, both in terms of genre, and what the most important characteristics of music are to you.

System:
VPI Classic, w/ Aluminum Denon 103 (the cart is likely to be upgraded soon)
Eico HF 81 integrated amp (completely rebuilt/restored)
GR research V1 open baffle speakers - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109455.0

Music:
I know everyone says this; but, I listen to a lot of genres. Never too loud though. Some of my favourite recordings are by:
Syd Barret, Nick Drake, OutKast, Dirty Three, Jesus Lizard, (Phil Spector), modern indi-rock, vintage hip hop, folk, country... So, it has to be versatile.

Room:
My listening room is not dedicated. It is a living room. It will change over time. I do have speaker placement and listening chair priority in the space. I sit about 9' back and listen to records -- all the time.

[roscoeiii]

I have very similar tastes, and would suggest giving the Avid some thought. Compared mine to a SimAudio LP5.3 with optional external power supply, and the Avid killed it. Not a matter of "personal preferences" in this case. In particular the texture and tone of the bass stood out, and not as bright in the highs. A number of gain options.

[SteveRB]

I have very similar tastes, and would suggest giving the Avid some thought. Compared mine to a SimAudio LP5.3 with optional external power supply, and the Avid killed it. Not a matter of "personal preferences" in this case. In particular the texture and tone of the bass stood out, and not as bright in the highs. A number of gain options.

Thanks a lot. I guess part of what I'm looking for is a detailed (reference) phono stage. My Eico amp is very pleasing if not totally accurate. I do want a higher level of detail from the vinyl front end.

[roscoeiii]

Thanks a lot. I guess part of what I'm looking for is a detailed (reference) phono stage. My Eico amp is very pleasing if not totally accurate. I do want a higher level of detail from the vinyl front end.

If that is the case, I'd go SS and non-SUT MC for your phono stage. Both tubes (IME) and SUTs (I am told) can have a tendency to soften and warm things up.

[vortrex]

when I was comparing between SUT and no-SUT I definitely preferred the SUT.  much more interesting and engaging to me.

[jimdgoulding]

Google hi-fi stores in Austin, TX.  One of them carries JoLida tube stages and those can be bought for less than a thousand.  I would offer $500.00.  They offered one that had been in a show for that.

[roscoeiii]

when I was comparing between SUT and no-SUT I definitely preferred the SUT.  much more interesting and engaging to me.

Though it should be mentioned that vortrex was using tube phono pres (unless I am forgetting a SS phono stage you may have used the SUT with). Again, WRT SUTs, I am going by impressions I have read in threads, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[SteveRB]

You are actually the second person to recommend the Avid Pellar...

...probably not easy to find on the used market.

[Maceo23]

I absolutely love my Clearaudio Basic+.  I don't know if its just the synergy between it and my Concept, but it is fantastic for the money.  I had a Sutherland PH3D before, and the Basic trounced it.

[roscoeiii]

You are actually the second person to recommend the Avid Pellar...

...probably not easy to find on the used market.

Or you heard me suggest it twice. Only been out since late 2012, so not very likely to find used. But again, you have the advantage of it being carried by Music Direct (30 day returns). It was Chris at Music Direct (their vinyl guru) who put me on to the Avid phono preamps.

Occasionally a Pulsus will pop up used for a bit over your budget.

[jimdgoulding]

I absolutely love my Clearaudio Basic+.  I don't know if its just the synergy between it and my Concept, but it is fantastic for the money.  I had a Sutherland PH3D before, and the Basic trounced it.

Whoa, dude!  The Sutherland is one of the most highly regarded pieces out there but was your model the big one or the little one?  I'm not familiar with the model numbers.  Anyway, glad your happy and I'm encouraged.  Thanks.   

[SteveRB]

The Clearaudio looks like it is designed to work best with their carts.

[Devil Doc]

Or you heard me suggest it twice. Only been out since late 2012, so not very likely to find used. But again, you have the advantage of it being carried by Music Direct (30 day returns). It was Chris at Music Direct (their vinyl guru) who put me on to the Avid phono preamps.

Occasionally a Pulsus will pop up used for a bit over your budget.

Tried to sell me one too.He almost succeded until he mentioned if I wanted to change loadings I'd have to solder resistors!!! I went with the Musical Fidelity M1ViNL. Might not have enough gain for you but Fremer reviewed it with his Ortofon A-90 and didn't have any problems. Matter of fact he told me he bought the review sample as an example of how a phono-pre in this price range should sound.

Doc

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

These are not my words
"Although this may sound like a perfect solution, transformers can affect the music in unforeseen ways. A transformer is simply wire coiled around a core, so the delicate low-level audio signals must travel through long runs of wire on both sides of the transformer before conversion. This process can expose the signal to RF interference and even hum from external sources, which means extra noise. A transformer can also introduce phase errors and hysteresis which will result in loss of resolution and soundstage size. Finally, transformers are not flexible when it comes to correct cartridge loading offering only limited compatibility with phono preamps."
These marketing words makes me want to try out a Head AMP.
SteveRB , you say you plan to upgrade from your alluminum 103 to what may I ask? An up grade I suppose I might do is when the time comes is change the worn diamond with a soundsmith upgrade which one I do not know but others seem to think one of the 103's weaknesses is its diamond and alluminum canteliver

[roscoeiii]

Tried to sell me one too.He almost succeded until he mentioned if I wanted to change loadings I'd have to solder resistors!!! I went with the Musical Fidelity M1ViNL. Might not have enough gain for you but Fremer reviewed it with his Ortofon A-90 and didn't have any problems. Matter of fact he told me he bought the review sample as an example of how a phono-pre in this price range should sound.

Doc

Have to solder resisters? On the Avid Pellar?

To change the loading, loading plugs are used in the Pellar phono stage. According to the manual, the phono stage comes with 2 loading plugs and additional values can be obtained from an Avid dealer.

Also, a review of the Pellar, which has no mention of needing to solder anything:
http://www.avidhifi.co.uk/reviews_pellar.htm

As for the Pulsus, it uses DIP switched on the bottom of the unit.

[SteveRB]

SteveRB , you say you plan to upgrade from your alluminum 103 to what may I ask? An up grade I suppose I might do is when the time comes is change the worn diamond with a soundsmith upgrade which one I do not know but others seem to think one of the 103's weaknesses is its diamond and alluminum canteliver

i'd like something a little more detailed and suited to the Classic Arm... benz glider maybe.

i guess I am not married to the SUT internal to the phono stage. Thanks guys.

[Devil Doc]

Have to solder resisters? On the Avid Pellar?

To change the loading, loading plugs are used in the Pellar phono stage. According to the manual, the phono stage comes with 2 loading plugs and additional values can be obtained from an Avid dealer.

Also, a review of the Pellar, which has no mention of needing to solder anything:
http://www.avidhifi.co.uk/reviews_pellar.htm

As for the Pulsus, it uses DIP switched on the bottom of the unit.

Keep in mind the product had just been released. They were pushing it. I don't think the guy had even read the instruction manual yet, but I'm certain he said I would have to acquire resistors and solder them on, otherwise I would have considered buying it. Could have been a misunderstanding, but I don't think so.

Doc