[studiotech]

A big amp isn't going to give you the same effect as improving the speaker's efficiency and transient response.

So true.  Buying a more powerful amp may be a cheap solution, but it does not improve the situation really.  I'd like to see one of the tests like those published by SoundStage done at the NRC of power compression.  They call it "deviation from linearity"

http://www.soundstageav.com/speakermeasurements.html

See the Janszen model 1 as an example:

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/janszen_model_one/

[*Scotty*]

Au contraire, I think Magnepan has their target audience nailed. They have stayed in business for more than thirty years making an affordable product that performs to a very high level. They have also continuously improved their product over time and kept it more than competitive with products at or above its price point.
I think they offer a product that has a lot bang for the buck and they have resisted the temptation to go "upmarket" and leave behind audiophiles who are not lottery winners.
 I too would like to see Soundstage measurements of the 3.7 and 20.7 done in the NRC facility just to satisfy my curiosity.
Scotty

[medium jim]

Au contraire, I think Magnepan has their target audience nailed. They have stayed in business for more than thirty years making an affordable product that performs to a very high level. They have also continuously improved their product over time and kept it more than competitive with products at or above its price point.
I think they offer a product that has a lot bang for the buck and they have resisted the temptation to go "upmarket" and leave behind audiophiles who are not lottery winners.
 I too would like to see Soundstage measurements of the 3.7 and 20.7 done in the NRC facility just to satisfy my curiosity.
Scotty

Scotty, I agree with everything you said, except that they have stayed true to their core beliefs for over 40 years. 

Jim

[jhm731]

You guys must be smoking something that's still not legal in my state.

A few years ago, I spent $200. bucks to fly over to the my "local" dealer to hear the 1.7s.

In spite of being driven by the big Bryston monos, the sound was flat and uninvolving.

As a past T-1D owner, I'd love to go back to Magnepan(3.7s or 20.7s) but at low levels they still don't
cut it.

Magnepan's "core beliefs" use to be SOTA with the Tympani speakers, IMO, Wendell has lead them astray.

Most hi end audio companies are trickle down, not trickle up.

[SteveFord]

FWIW, when I first heard the 1.7s I was really disappointed, too. 
They just didn't cut it but I had 1.6s upstairs at the time so I knew that something had to be wrong.
I eventually ended up with 1.7s and after a few weeks I did a 1.6/1.7 comparison.
The 1.6s now reside with an enthusiast in Norway, the 1.7s reside with me.

[*Scotty*]

jhm731, what you described sounds like the classic case of an unbroken in Magneplaner and the smaller Maggie's suffer more from a lack of time on them than the larger models. They do not sound very impressive right out of the box.
Scotty

[josh358]

IMO, Magnepan has their head in the sand.

Audiophiles have repeatly shown that they are willing to pay for high performance products.

A big amp isn't going to give you the same effect as improving the speaker's efficiency and transient reponse.

They know that expensive products are doing well right now, but they consider them too far from their corporate mission. As Jim Winey puts it, most of the companies that make ultra-expensive products sell only a handful. Magnepan's goal has always been to sell high quality audio products at a price that everyone can afford.

Which isn't to say that we might not see a higher end product from them. It's no secret that they've debated a new Tympani. When I asked Mark Winey about it, he said that it was under discussion, but that a final decision hadn't been made.

That leaves a gap in the ultra high end planar market, what with Apogee gone. But then, Apogee was closed down because its products were too expensive to produce and maintain. The Grand had everything, but it cost too much to make.

[berni]

They know that expensive products are doing well right now, but they consider them too far from their corporate mission. As Jim Winey puts it, most of the companies that make ultra-expensive products sell only a handful. Magnepan's goal has always been to sell high quality audio products at a price that everyone can afford.

Which isn't to say that we might not see a higher end product from them. It's no secret that they've debated a new Tympani. When I asked Mark Winey about it, he said that it was under discussion, but that a final decision hadn't been made.

That leaves a gap in the ultra high end planar market, what with Apogee gone. But then, Apogee was closed down because its products were too expensive to produce and maintain. The Grand had everything, but it cost too much to make.

Was this the only and main reason why Apogee gone?
It was also because they couldn't get back when they were on the court because they copied something they really didn't used or needed to!

[Hank]

they couldn't get back when they were on the court

Could you clarify that?

they copied something they really didn't used or needed to

Also, what do those words mean?

[berni]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/375211/apogee-speakers-r-i-p-is-this-a-sign-from-above

http://www.newaudiosociety.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1126911225/15

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/7/73807.html

[jhm731]

They know that expensive products are doing well right now, but they consider them too far from their corporate mission. As Jim Winey puts it, most of the companies that make ultra-expensive products sell only a handful. Magnepan's goal has always been to sell high quality audio products at a price that everyone can afford.

Which isn't to say that we might not see a higher end product from them. It's no secret that they've debated a new Tympani. When I asked Mark Winey about it, he said that it was under discussion, but that a final decision hadn't been made.

That leaves a gap in the ultra high end planar market, what with Apogee gone. But then, Apogee was closed down because its products were too expensive to produce and maintain. The Grand had everything, but it cost too much to make.

I can certainly understand Magnepan's goal to sell high quality audio products at affordable prices.

Having said that, if they're not using Neodynium magnets, I don't understand why the 20.7s cost $8K more than the 3.7s.

Does anyone know of a dealer that has 3.7s and 20.7s on display?

[*Scotty*]

Part of the cost my be related to perceived value, audiophiles, for some strange reason are reluctant to pay less for something, they are more comfortable paying more. Screwy ain't it. 
Scotty

[Rclark]

jhm731, what you described sounds like the classic case of an unbroken in Magneplaner and the smaller Maggie's suffer more from a lack of time on them than the larger models. They do not sound very impressive right out of the box.
Scotty

Yeah, when I listen to mine it does NOT jibe with the occassional comments you come across like JHM's. It is impossible that we have experienced the same speaker (JHM). Flat and uninvolving? More like a fluid 3D sparkly sonic orgasm fest with pyrotechnics.

Didn't know they require a break in. Mine were used (owned by a classical violinist) before they got shipped off to the 'stand.

[SteveFord]

The 20.7s bring a few things to the table that the other models don't.
What you're paying for is increased resolution as Magnepan puts it.  They'll reproduce things that were previously just buried in the mix with the other models in the line up.
You also get increased dynamics, a wider and taller soundstage and considerably more bass.
They also do a better job of filling the room with sound at lower volumes simply because they are bigger!

[*Scotty*]

Yes Rclark, all maggies require a substantial breaking in period, no BS, about 3months of pounding them at high SPLs with bass heavy music, dubstep would be perfect. I have also experienced about the same breakin period on the Hi-Vi RT2C-A tweeters in my current speakers, thought they were never going break in.
Scotty

[SteveFord]

Do they ever require break in!
My MMGs sounded like they were made out of wet cardboard when I first hooked them up around 20 years ago.
We unboxed them (Oh, boy!), I put on some Roxy Music and my wife and I both looked at each other and said, "We can always return them"!
It got better but were we ever crestfallen.

The foil ones break in quicker than the old wire ones but it still takes a bit. 
I'm pretty sure that the 1.7s I heard at The Listening Room two years ago were brand new but if I didn't know better I would have crossed them off my list.

[medium jim]

Not to beat up R too much, new capacitors in the crossovers also need to  break-in and there is a difference in the sound during this break-in.  So when you got them back from Magnestand, they would have required a break-in before they started to sound their best...the difference is rather noticeable.

Jim

[Hear Clifford Brown]

Rclark, check your PMs

[*Scotty*]

I will say this, when I modded a friends MG 1.2s about 30 years ago replacing the Mylar capacitors with 400v polypropylene foil and film and Solen Heptalitz coils, the improvement in dynamics and imaging was immediate and dramatic. They really didn't sound like the same loudspeakers, basically their performance was crippled by the stock crossover components. To add insult to injury the Mylar caps had steel leads.
Scotty

[medium jim]

I will say this, when I modded a friends MG 1.2s about 30 years ago replacing the Mylar capacitors with 400v polypropylene foil and film and Solen Heptalitz coils, the improvement in dynamics and imaging was immediate and dramatic. They really didn't sound like the same loudspeakers, basically their performance was crippled by the stock crossover components. To add insult to injury the Mylar caps had steel leads.
Scotty

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=751.0

Jim