[Rclark]

That set, with the grill off, is an enormous improvement to what I'm used to seeing. That actually looks really nice from the front but the big plain rectangular box shape with straight edges is just not a good look these days.

[berni]

Maybe I'm missing something, but the spacing of the midrange and tweeter acoustical centers on those Harbeth's seems about the same as the midrange/tweeter spacing on these 20.1's:

Are you shure this are 20.1 and not 20.0?

[josh358]

Are you shure this are 20.1 and not 20.0?

Oops, sorry, I must have spaced. You're quite right, they're 20's. Good catch!

[berni]

Oops, sorry, I must have spaced. You're quite right, they're 20's. Good catch!

[jsm71]

Bob's old but not THAT old!
Swiped from Wikipedia:

Arthur Janszen was granted U.S. Patent 2,631,196 in 1953 for an electrostatic loudspeaker. The developers of the Tri-Ergon sound-on-film sound film system had developed a primitive design of electrostatic loudspeaker as early as 1919. Mr. Janszen's company, JansZen still makes an evolved version of his original design.[3] The KLH Nine was designed in the mid-1950s by Arthur A. Janszen, and thousands were sold after the design was brought over to KLH in 1959 and put into regular production

I have the current JansZen zA2.1 speakers.  There are two panels vertically in each cabinet.  David Janszen says the latest design is the sixth generation for the family.  Amazing speaker.  They deliver ALL the benefits of electrostatic panels.

These are my second planar speakers.  Maggie 1.7s were my first.  Planars are perhaps not the end-all in speakers, but for the cost of most models you can not beat them, even if you have to augment with a sub.   I did use a sub with the Maggies, but I don't feel the need with the JansZens.   I am old enough to remember the KLH Nines.  At the time I heard them they were outside of anything I could ever consider owning but they amazed everybody.  That memory stuck with me up to the time I bought the Maggies.

[jimdgoulding]

I heard a demo of the Janzsen years ago and all this time I thought they were stats.  Regardless, sounded very impressive to me.  I believe they were full range speakers.

[studiotech]

I heard a demo of the Janzsen years ago and all this time I thought they were stats.  Regardless, sounded very impressive to me.  I believe they were full range speakers.

Huh?  They ARE stats....

http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/

Greg

[studiotech]

I'd like to add my own story.  I had a set of MMG's for about 5 years and fell in love with what they do well, but struggled with their dynamic limitations.  Smaller Maggies reach a point where you can keep feeding more power, but they don't get any louder.  It like a limiter got inserted in the chain somewhere.   I think some folks mistake ultimate SPL capability with dynamics.  They could get plenty loud, but missed the "jump" factor.  Listen to a high sensitivity based design and you will notice what I'm talking about.

Planars REALLY excel at getting the leading edges of percussive sounds and plucked strings so right despite the fact that they may dynamically squash the transient at higher levels.  True ribbons do the same thing, just take it even higher in frequency.  It's really difficult to go back to cones and domes after getting used to planar presentation. 

Once my Maggies developed the de-lamination issue, I moved on to DIY.  I auditioned and tested many of the worlds best mids and non of them could do that planar trick.  Once the BG Neo10 became available to the DIY market, I bought it and never looked back.  It sounded so right in the same ways that Maggies sound right, but has greater dynamic contrast.  All BG Neo products use double sided magnetic systems AND neodymium which tops the Magnepan products.  Unfortunately for Magnepan, the cost of neo magnets has gone up so much and their speakers are so large, that they could never justify the switch to neo from the standard ferrite magnets.  So, I've got a planar based hybrid and I don't see myself ever wanting to change away from it.

Greg 

[Davey]

"Smaller Maggies reach a point where you can keep feeding more power, but they don't get any louder.  It like a limiter got inserted in the chain somewhere. "

This is where the "soaking up power" cliche' comes from.  It's compression.

I don't have any listening experience with the largest Magnepan's, but my MMG's exhibit this characteristic, and 1.6's and 3.6's I've listened to will also compress noticeably.  It can be alleviated quite a bit by steering the bass away from the main speakers and to separate woofers.  This is one reason why folks who bi-amp have the potential to improve their system performance quite a bit.

OTOH, they do so many other things so well, it's difficult not to love the overall package.  The value is also excellent....especially with the smaller models.

Cheers,

Dave.

[medium jim]

"Smaller Maggies reach a point where you can keep feeding more power, but they don't get any louder.  It like a limiter got inserted in the chain somewhere. "

This is where the "soaking up power" cliche' comes from.  It's compression.

I don't have any listening experience with the largest Magnepan's, but my MMG's exhibit this characteristic, and 1.6's and 3.6's I've listened to will also compress noticeably.  It can be alleviated quite a bit by steering the bass away from the main speakers and to separate woofers.  This is one reason why folks who bi-amp have the potential to improve their system performance quite a bit.

OTOH, they do so many other things so well, it's difficult not to love the overall package.  The value is also excellent....especially with the smaller models.

Cheers,

Dave.

Davey:

Since most Maggie's are lean on bass anyway, most of us employee a sub or more and this relieves much of the grunt work (depending on how you set your subs) and leave the power for the upper bass thru the highs.   Doing that makes the Maggie's much easier to drive and allows for more amps to be viable with them. 

Jim

[studiotech]

"Smaller Maggies reach a point where you can keep feeding more power, but they don't get any louder.  It like a limiter got inserted in the chain somewhere. "

This is where the "soaking up power" cliche' comes from.  It's compression.

Precisely!  And it's a real bummer if you're listening to already highly compressed modern music.  Now if we could just get Wisdom to trickle down their new MID/Tweet modules to more affordable options....their design is like a variation of this thing:

http://www.getmad.com/733806

Years ago I heard a full-blown MAD planar PA system complete with their cardioid subwoofers at an AES convention. Wow!!!!  It was hi-fi PA.
Like giant Maggies on steroids.  Each array is comprised of individual elements not unlike the Neo10 design, but designed for much higher power levels.

http://www.getmad.com/733805

Greg

[jimdgoulding]

Huh?  They ARE stats....

http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/

Greg

Thanks, Greg.  From what I remember they were monster full range planars.  There is a chance I am confusing what I listened to with something else.

[studiotech]

Thanks, Greg.  From what I remember they were monster full range planars.  There is a chance I am confusing what I listened to with something else.

Older models were large full-range stats, so you are probably recalling correctly.   See here for a little history:

http://www.martinlogan.com/learn/electrostatic-loudspeaker-history.php

Greg

[josh358]

Planars REALLY excel at getting the leading edges of percussive sounds and plucked strings so right despite the fact that they may dynamically squash the transient at higher levels.  True ribbons do the same thing, just take it even higher in frequency.  It's really difficult to go back to cones and domes after getting used to planar presentation.

Interesting that you mention that, because Wendell was asking about it yesterday. He says, "One problem I hear in all electrostats--- dynamic compression. The explosive quality of drum rimshot or the "edge" on a trumpet is not there like a ribbon speaker. I am not the only one that finds that lacking, but it is seldom mentioned when comparing the pros and cons." And he was wondering whether that was due to the transformer, or something else.

[SteveFord]

I may love my planars but here's one aspect of it that I really hate:

Bell Laboratory’s electrostat was something to behold. This enormous bipolar speaker was as big as a door. The diaphragm, which was beginning to rot, was made of a pig intestine that was covered with fine gold leaf to conduct the audio signal.

The flies in the Summer are just beyond belief.

[josh358]

I may love my planars but here's one aspect of it that I really hate:

Bell Laboratory’s electrostat was something to behold. This enormous bipolar speaker was as big as a door. The diaphragm, which was beginning to rot, was made of a pig intestine that was covered with fine gold leaf to conduct the audio signal.

The flies in the Summer are just beyond belief.

Hey, think of it this way: if you had a couple of those, you'd have the room to yourself.

[SteveFord]

What IS that buzzing sound?

[josh358]

Maybe your flies are delaminating.

[SteveFord]

Josh,
If I had been drinking coffee it would have shot out of my nose.
Good one!

[josh358]

Isn't that how they make espresso?