If I could have only one amplifer, SS or TUBE?

Corradobrit · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 Apr 2013, 02:49 am »

I guess that depends on the speakers. If I have high sensitivity then tubes are probably my first choice. SE design. There are many very well designed SS amps and I have a ADA MPA-500 in my HT. One day I would like to go all monoblock tube, which would match my full range drivers perfectly.

Pete Schumacher · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 Apr 2013, 04:20 am »

Tubes.

I've been a solid state guy all my life. LOTS of power to avoid clipping at all costs. I never really understood the infatuation with tubes, their excessive heat, shorter usable lifetime, transformer coupling, all the things that seem to be shortcomings compared to the more advanced, high tech solid state.

Then, I spent some time with some very well designed, low noise tube amps and listened through some world class speakers. I was beginning to understand. Especially at lower volumes, where we spend most of the time listening, there was a certain richness of character compared to the SS amps.

I've also found that a 35W KT88 seems to have about the same usable volume as a 100W SS due in large measure to how annoying things sound under clipping conditions.

And for the aficionado, tube rolling is half the fun!

mca · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 Apr 2013, 04:41 am »

A year ago I would have said tubes, but some of the new class D designs are starting to change my mind.

Rclark · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 Apr 2013, 04:58 am »

Quote from: mca on 24 Apr 2013, 04:41 am

A year ago I would have said tubes, but some of the new class D designs are starting to change my mind.

Especially for the money. As class d gets better and better it will be harder and harder for me to rationalize buying the equivalent tube amp. I do want one though, just to have one, and will be going tubes for my headphone setup when I get to that.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 Apr 2013, 10:32 am »

Quote from: Pete Schumacher on 24 Apr 2013, 04:20 am

Tubes.

I've been a solid state guy all my life. LOTS of power to avoid clipping at all costs. I never really understood the infatuation with tubes, their excessive heat, shorter usable lifetime, transformer coupling, all the things that seem to be shortcomings compared to the more advanced, high tech solid state.

Then, I spent some time with some very well designed, low noise tube amps and listened through some world class speakers. I was beginning to understand. Especially at lower volumes, where we spend most of the time listening, there was a certain richness of character compared to the SS amps.

I've also found that a 35W KT88 seems to have about the same usable volume as a 100W SS due in large measure to how annoying things sound under clipping conditions.

And for the aficionado, tube rolling is half the fun!

There is a lot of truth to this. The SS that gets somewhat close to tubes offerings are those from Pass Labs. Even, then they still do not sound quite like tubes.

Early B. · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Apr 2013, 11:02 am »

I'd choose tubes. Simple circuits with the ability to tube roll, and lots of wow factor. Plus, wives like them so much that they forget to ask how much you paid.

winsound · « **Reply #26 on:** 29 May 2013, 03:57 am »

Simple if you listen to vocal and classical music: tube. Anything else: SS

a.wayne · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:03 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 24 Apr 2013, 04:58 am

Especially for the money. As class d gets better and better it will be harder and harder for me to rationalize buying the equivalent tube amp. I do want one though, just to have one, and will be going tubes for my headphone setup when I get to that.

Cheap Money..!!

The last time i looked class-d was not cheap, heck , with Rowland asking 32K plus and with plenty others in the 5-12K range, far from cheap , look at BelCanto prices .....

A lot of money for a little box ......

Rclark · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:13 pm »

You're right, and even at $2000 built for essentially a diy, the Nc400 is far from cheap. But a lot of guys here spend a lot of money and some even consider price to be a direct correlation to sound quality, as shown in some recent posts. So they will buy hugely overpriced gear based on old technology. I suspect expectation bias has a hand in that, habit, tradition.

You are right, a little perspective is required when we talk about prices. High end class d is less expensive than its "competition", but far from cheap or priced for the average consumer.

That latest NC1200 monoblock set is $18000 for a set of boxes that weigh a couple pounds each, under ten pounds...

thunderbrick · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:26 pm »

How about a hybrid amp? That way you have the best of both worlds.

Rclark · « **Reply #30 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:29 pm »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 3 Jun 2013, 10:26 pm

How about a hybrid amp? That way you have the best of both worlds.

A lot of people here enjoy tube preamps with class d and or now tubed class d amps. But coming from a pretty much straight to amps setup like I have, all I have is a battery powered volume knob in the way, I find it hard to believe the purity and dimensionality will improve with a tube in front.

Horses for courses, but I am not suffering from any lack of "magic", rather I am astounded by what I hear, daily.

a.wayne · « **Reply #31 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:31 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 3 Jun 2013, 10:13 pm

You're right, and even at $2000 built for essentially a diy, the Nc400 is far from cheap. But a lot of guys here spend a lot of money and some even consider price to be a direct correlation to sound quality, as shown in some recent posts. So they will buy hugely overpriced gear based on old technology. I suspect expectation bias has a hand in that, habit, tradition.

You are right, a little perspective is required when we talk about prices. High end class d is less expensive than its "competition", but far from cheap or priced for the average consumer.

That latest NC1200 monoblock set is $18000 for a set of boxes that weigh a couple pounds each, under ten pounds...

Yep 2k for a DIY would only be some kind of a bargain if you like the sound , if not , 2K wasted on a DIY project . I had sent Hypex an email awhile back requesting some info and they never responded , good reason to move on ...

Regards

jackman · « **Reply #32 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:35 pm »

I suspect the cases for those expensive NC1200 Ncore amps weigh much more than the active components. If they sound better than heavy, equally expensive amps, I guess we shouldn't care. It's just interesting that several companies are able to market, essentially the same unmodded amps for so much money.

As far as I know, none of the NC1200 sellers are doing anything different with the modules. They all appear to use the same standard Hypex amp modules and power supplies. The fancy cases are all different but the internals all seem to be the same.

It's interesting to follow these offerings and see which companies will continue to market these amps without any modifications or any real differences (except for their cases and connectors). Maybe someone will come along and offer one with a custom power supply or real improvements or offer one at a discounted price in a modest case. Not holding my breath...

Oh, and if I had to pick one amp, I could be happy with SS, but would prefer a good tube amp. I like my NCore amp a lot, and was surprised the SAS 50wpc push-pull amps sounded better. The SAS tube amp had all of the detail of the SS amp, but they had a non-fatiguing, musical sound with a spooky 3D midrange quality. Of course, the Class D amps (with switching PS) run very cool and efficiently and the Ncore kits are a bargain. For the money, I'm not sure there is a better amp than the NCore kits. If you can spend a bit more, the SAS tube amps are better in every category except energy efficiency. I'd love to hear the SAS's versus those $18K NCore amps.

Rclark · « **Reply #33 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:38 pm »

Quote from: a.wayne on 3 Jun 2013, 10:31 pm

Yep 2k for a DIY would only be some kind of a bargain if you like the sound , if not , 2K wasted on a DIY project . I had sent Hypex an email awhile back requesting some info and they never responded , good reason to move on ...

Regards

haha, probably too busy! And not the first unanswered audio company email. Post your questions in the Hypex forum instead

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #34 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:51 pm »

A late vote for tube amps.
Reason: It is simple and stable, a permanent technology that will not become obsolete in the future.

a.wayne · « **Reply #35 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 10:58 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 3 Jun 2013, 10:38 pm

haha, probably too busy! And not the first unanswered audio company email. Post your questions in the Hypex forum instead

Nahh, still very happy with big bulky SS amps , plus i would need a new amp rack if i ever switched to class-d

Rclark · « **Reply #36 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 11:02 pm »

Cool cool. What are you runnin'?

Freo-1 · « **Reply #37 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 11:03 pm »

If you are using active speakers, then a tube preamp is in order.

Seriously, whatever works best for YOU with your system.

SteveFord · « **Reply #38 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 11:20 pm »

I would have to go with tubes.
I like the looks and I like the sound and I like tube rolling to hear what the different results are.

Having said that, I've had quite a few SS amps that I've really liked over the years.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #39 on:** 3 Jun 2013, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 3 Jun 2013, 10:29 pm

...all I have is a battery powered volume knob in the way, I find it hard to believe the purity and dimensionality will improve with a tube in front.

Actually, with the low input impedance of most class D amps there's a really good chance a tube buffer would make a noticeable improvement. I'd bet money on it actually.

Poll

Which type of amp design would you pick to live with, if you had to pick either solid state or tubes?

If I could have only one amplifer, SS or TUBE?