Toying with Coming Back to the Dark Side.

kingdeezie · « **on:** 28 Jan 2013, 11:57 pm »

So, what amounts to about two years ago, and much against the advice of people on this forum, I sold my vinyl setup. At the time, other responsibilities like my family and work were monopolizing all of my time, and I spent more and more time listening to digital because it was easy to just create a playlist, and get things done around the house with music playing in the background.

To this day, with having just purchased a Meitner MA-1, I am enjoying digital more then ever before.

However, outside of the debatable differences in sound between digital and analog, I more then anything miss the novelty of playing certain records that I had come to cherish while I had my analog setup. My desire to get back into vinyl is more for the experience, and less about my unhappiness with digital.

Before I sold everything my analog setup consisted of a JA Michell Gyrodec, Tecnoarm, Dynavector 20XHO, and a Dodd Audio Battery Preamp.

Obviously, it is easy to just say, purchase the same set up you had before, but I want to try something different, and see if I can best the setup I had before.

So basically, I am looking for recommendations from the folks on this board for a complete analog system.

Budget is in the same price range as the Meitner, in order to facilitate proximity in quality of sources, so say anywhere from 4K-7K.

I leave the floor open to any and all suggestions.

SET Man · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 12:41 am »

Hey!

Vinyl's the "Dark side?" To me that is the Redbook CD

Anyway, on a serious note. If you still have you LPs than I can't see why not? for that kind of budget there are lots of options. So, I wouldn't limit yourself to your old set up. But I have to say the Gyrodec is a pretty machine.

Personally if I had that kind of budget I will definitely look for a nice tubed phono pre for the set up.

Take care,
Buddy

kingdeezie · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 01:06 am »

The Gyrodec was a pretty machine, but I don't think I ever really got the best out of it. I never really understood the spring suspension, and how to get it dialed in properly. I would want something less complicated to setup.

The amount of options is what makes getting back into analog so confusing. If is easy to get carried away with the insane amount of availability, and it is quite simple to get over 10K without blinking.

Berndt · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 03:26 am »

It is also a good budget to expect good results.
Smart shopping will be in order.
There are many ways to get stuck though. I'd encourage you to find a local crew who has done the work though.
Listening to a guys rig that has been doing it for a while is very helpful.
I could not have done this alone or purely online. My local broughams were indispensable.

coverto · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 05:18 am »

If you're willing to buy used pieces and such, you could assemble something like this:

WT Amadeus - $2k used
Zesto Andros - $3k used
(OR K&K Maxxed Out used - if you can find one - $1500)
Dyna XX2MkII or Lyra Delos - $1200 on fleabay
$500 for a well-reviewed, used phono cable (e.g. - Furutech AG-12, SR Trigon Analog, Silver Breeze, Auditorium 23).

There. Just within your budget, and mind-blowing to boot. Not that it wouldn't take a little time and luck.

toocool4 · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 11:13 am »

kingdeezie don’t toy, just do it.

You say you want something that is easy to setup and use, let me recommend the Oracle Paris MkV. I think it’s about $5000, you have everything you need to start playing.

At this price you won’t find anything better.

Paris review below.

http://www.hifinews.co.uk/news/article/oracle-paris-mkv-pound;4750/9334

http://hifipig.com/oracle-paris-mk-v-turntable/

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 07:25 pm »

That's a dang decent budget. Buy the top most VPI Classic you can afford and you're good to go

Budget another ~ $2500 for periphery ring, SDS (speed controller) and vacuum cleaning machine (and fluids) and your swinging for the stars.

Cheers, John

roscoeiii · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 07:44 pm »

I'd also suggest taking a look at the Townshend Rock 7. There is a thread here where I compare it to the Amadeus, also an excellent table. The Classic is also a nice suggestion. Haven't had one in my system, but liked it in a friend's system (too much unfamiliar gear there to be able to compare it to the turntables I have had in my system, but that set-up with the Classic, an ARC preamp and powered ATC speakers did sound very nice).

Avid's new table also looks very interesting. TONEPUB has reviewed it.

Where are you located? Any possibility of auditioning any of these?

vortrex · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 08:34 pm »

the VPI Classic is a fine table if you want something traditional, but it's not going to be anything "magical". it is a safe bet for sure, but I'd take roscoeiii's advice. when I put his old Amadeus into my system (replacing the Classic 1) the differences were fairly mind blowing, especially considering the retail pricing is the same. the person who bought my Amadeus replaced a Classic 3 and I think I saw a post from him saying the Amadeus is better.

galyons · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 08:55 pm »

Quote from: vortrex on 29 Jan 2013, 08:34 pm

...when I put his old Amadeus into my system (replacing the Classic 1) the differences were fairly mind blowing
... the person who bought my Amadeus replaced a Classic 3 and I think I saw a post from him saying the Amadeus is better.

Can you explain how the reproduced sound was "mind blowing"ly different and "better"? Better imaging, soundstage, background, timbre....?

cheers,
Geary

vortrex · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 09:16 pm »

really, everything was better in my opinion. sound wise there was nothing the VPI did better than the Amadeus. one of the biggest differences was in the bottom end, much better bass for sure. overall, a much more organic 3D analog sound, which for me is the whole point of having a TT.

SET Man · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 01:07 am »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 29 Jan 2013, 07:44 pm

I'd also suggest taking a look at the Townshend Rock 7. There is a thread here where I compare it to the Amadeus, also an excellent table. The Classic is also a nice suggestion. Haven't had one in my system, but liked it in a friend's system (too much unfamiliar gear there to be able to compare it to the turntables I have had in my system, but that set-up with the Classic, an ARC preamp and powered ATC speakers did sound very nice).

Avid's new table also looks very interesting. TONEPUB has reviewed it.

Where are you located? Any possibility of auditioning any of these?

Hey!

Last year I heard the Townshend Rock 7 at Wes Bender Studio here in NYC. I did spent sometime with it spinning my own LPs I bought over. Well, at first I thought the front damping well would be annoying but after a few time of use I got used to it. I was impressed with the sound, it was... well rock steady and rock solid... pun intended.

I'm not not looking for a new TT right now and its price tag is a bit more than I can afford right now. But if I will be looking for a new TT I will definitely put this on my list and save money for it. It was one of the more memorable TT I've encountered.

Anyway, if you are in NYC area or near by do check it out at Wes'....

http://www.wesbenderstudionyc.com/townshend-audio-turntables/

Take care,
Buddy

roscoeiii · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 01:33 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 30 Jan 2013, 01:07 am

Hey!

Last year I heard the Townshend Rock 7 at Wes Bender Studio here in NYC. I did spent sometime with it spinning my own LPs I bought over. Well, at first I thought the front damping well would be annoying but after a few time of use I got used to it. I was impressed with the sound, it was... well rock steady and rock solid... pun intended.

I'm not not looking for a new TT right now and its price tag is a bit more than I can afford right now. But if I will be looking for a new TT I will definitely put this on my list and save money for it. It was one of the more memorable TT I've encountered.

Anyway, if you are in NYC area or near by do check it out at Wes'....

http://www.wesbenderstudionyc.com/townshend-audio-turntables/

Take care,
Buddy

Yeah, I got very lucky and bought the only Rock 7 I have ever seen for sale used from a dealer who got it on trade-in and priced it amazingly low (including a Rega arm, less than I paid for my Amadeus). It is a superb table, and unlike the Amadeus, it allows you to obsess over potential tonearm upgrades (for better, for worse).

Here is the link for the thread where I compare the Rock to the Amadeus:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105495.0

Not having a Rock dealer nearby, I have talked with Wes about getting a Rock clamp (not included with mine) and he seems like a very solid guy. Yes, those of you in the NYC area, should hit up Wes and check this table out.

SET Man · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 04:51 am »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 30 Jan 2013, 01:33 am

Yeah, I got very lucky and bought the only Rock 7 I have ever seen for sale used from a dealer who got it on trade-in and priced it amazingly low (including a Rega arm, less than I paid for my Amadeus). It is a superb table, and unlike the Amadeus, it allows you to obsess over potential tonearm upgrades (for better, for worse).

Here is the link for the thread where I compare the Rock to the Amadeus:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105495.0

Not having a Rock dealer nearby, I have talked with Wes about getting a Rock clamp (not included with mine) and he seems like a very solid guy. Yes, those of you in the NYC area, should hit up Wes and check this table out.

Hey!

Lucky you indeed.

What I remembered most about the Rock 7 was how solid the sound is especially the bass. It was one of the most solid bass I've heard from a turntable. Oh! and the Zesto Audio phono pre he had on that day was also excellent.

Yes, Wes is a solid guy and he got lots of other great audio stuffs at his place also. Definitely worth stopping by if you are in the area.

http://www.wesbenderstudionyc.com/

Take care,
Buddy

galyons · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 08:32 pm »

Quote from: vortrex on 29 Jan 2013, 09:16 pm

really, everything was better in my opinion. sound wise there was nothing the VPI did better than the Amadeus. one of the biggest differences was in the bottom end, much better bass for sure. overall, a much more organic 3D analog sound, which for me is the whole point of having a TT.

Thanks! That's interesting. I don't own a Classic, but I have heard a couple. One was particularly well set-up and sounded very good, to me. I did have the chance to compare an older Sota Star Sapphire/ Rega RB300/VPI PLC controller to the Amadeus in an all tube kit, (phono, pre, amps) with a SoundSmith Voice as the cartridge for both. I thought the Amadeus, compared to the Sota, was thinner in the bass and tilted treble. Imaging and soundstaging were about the same, but the Sota had more body and air around instruments and a more natural sound to female voice. The Amadeus had a slight edge in detail, as would be expected with the comparatively thinner voicing. I could have easily lived with either configuration.

I listen mostly to jazz, female vocalists and classical music. Also I listen to some dino rock when the mood is right! I didn't compare to my main rig: VPI/TNT/JMW10.5i.

So back to the OP, yes some vintage rigs do well against current production at a substantial savings! I have an Empire and 2 Thorens vintage tables and enjoy listening to them, as well. TT sound is always relative and highly subjective, especially given the fact that a TT has "no sound" until fully mated with cart and phono stage. That is what make it so much fun, but challenging to get right!!

Cheers,
Geary

woodsyi · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 08:59 pm »

Soundsmith Strainguage comes with phonostage and a pick up. I think you can get a TT and arm to go with it all under your budget if you go used.

I would compare the sound to be in the same league as what I get from my newly upgraded digital featuring the DAC2x. It should be able to hang with MA-1.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 09:16 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 30 Jan 2013, 08:59 pm

Soundsmith Strainguage comes with phonostage and a pick up. I think you can get a TT and arm to go with it all under your budget if you go used.

I would compare the sound to be in the same league as what I get from my newly upgraded digital featuring the DAC2x. It should be able to hang with MA-1.

Worth noting that the Strainguage seems to have quite an unique sound, based on what I have read. Some prefer it, some don't. Woodsyi I would b curious to hear your thoughts on it

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 09:57 pm »

May I encourage Woodsyi, too. Great thread. Keep em coming. Thanks.

woodsyi · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Jan 2013, 06:01 am »

It took me a long time to dial in Strainguage in my system. At first I wasn't sure I liked the sound. It was kind of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde case. It would do great on some recordings and be really hot on some other recordings. It was definitely in the accurate camp with leaner sound compared to my Aesthetix/Urushi set up. Then I had Alex from Wywire make me a phono cable and interconnects and things changed. When I replaced the Furutech silver phono cable and silver interconnects with Wywire golds, it improved the sound incredibly. The synergy with these new cables transformed the Strainguage to a warmer animal. The precision and accuracy was still there but now the tonality was much more to my liking. There is still no analog front end that I have heard that will do vocals better than my reference set up of Aesthetix/Koetsu/Graham/Teres but Strainguage now comes close and it surpasses the reference unit in detail retrieval on some recordings. Just to confirm by impression, I listened to Rebecca Pidgeon's Retrospective, Paul Simon's 25th anniversary pressing of Graceland, Tenor Jusse Bejorling and Soprano Ileana Cotrubas tonight. Instrument separation was better on Strainguage on Graceland but Ileana, my opera diva with such dainty and brittle voicd, sounded more liquid on the other. There is just no better presentation of soprano voice than my reference analog system. Jusse sounded good on both. Another area that strainguage excel is on background. It's very quiet and easy to set up as you don't have to worry about tubing. Aesthetix took a lot of effort and dough to tube it to sound good. It still is not quiet but the lovely "bloom" more than make up for it.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Feb 2013, 01:07 am »

Thanks for the recommendations so far everyone.

I am really digging the Well Tempered line of turntables. I looked on the WT circle here, and couldn't find any definitive answers. Does anyone know what the differences in sound quality you get with each of the different tables.

In other words, would a WT Simplex be sufficient, with placing the other budget available to the other aspects of the playback system, or should I consider either of the Amadeus tables, or the Versalex table, and use what is remaining of the budget for the table and the cart?