[echarlie]

Hello.

I have a pair of Hawthorne Audio Duet open baffle speakers.  15" Silver Iris midwoofer with the upgraded Radian compression drivers.  Custom built passive crossovers to "seam" this combo together.

15" Augie bass drivers as well. 

These drivers are mounted to an 1 1/2" thick solid Oak baffle.

The SI / Radian coaxial is driven by my custom built Jim Nicholls tube amp and the Augie's are being driven by a Keiga plate amp.

My "dilemma" is that I'm a bit of a bass head.  I don't really listen to much rap or etc. that has a real demand for crazy bass however, I must admit I love to have that full, deep bass sound if possible.  I do not use tone controls at all. 

So I've considered how I might be able to "add" a bit more bass.  I've thought of adding on to my existing baffles and turning them into Trios by adding another Augie.  This will cost a bit due to the custom wood work (I have someone already ready and willing to do it though) and the drivers themselves.

I've considered putting my existing Augie's in "h frames" instead of the flat baffles.  This would be cheaper but not sure how much of a result I would get and I really don't want to cut up my existing baffles if I don't have to, especially if the reward isn't really worth it.

The final thing I've considered is taking the current baffles for the duets and making them "Augie" only baffles with a pair of Augie's in each.  This would be great I think.  However, what to do with my existing coaxials then?  I could of course have new baffles made for them but what design for them since my current baffles for my Duets are approx. 37 1/2" tall with the base and putting a solo 15" SI coaxial at the top of a baffle this tall probably isn't the best design.

So this leaves me asking you fellow open baffle "experts" what you would do?  any ideas, suggestions?  any and all would be greatly appreciated.

[tryman]

at first try to put temp side wing at bottom part  can decrease front back wave cancellation so you can get more bass

[MJK]

Have you tried turning the gain up on the plate amp to boost the volume of the Augie bass driver? If you turn it up 6 dB you should get the output equivalent to two Augies. Just be careful of the total volume level so you don't over drive the woofers.

[JohnR]

To add to the comments from tryman and MJK, you didn't say anything about how the speakers are placed, so have you tried different room positionings? As a general rule, closer to the listener and further from walls will result in more bass. See http://www.hifizine.com/2012/03/on-dipole-subwoofer-placement/

Obviously, there are limits to what you can do in that regard so if none of those suggestions work out then perhaps you might consider simply building another baffle or pair of baffles, perhaps H-frame, and running them as true subs. That way you can leave your nice baffles as they are, and try different placements of the subs.

[sonicxtc]

I have the Hawthorne Trios. A friend came over. I had the plate amps set at about high noon. Adjusted xover point and
upped the gain to about 2:30. GOBS of bass. He's a bass freak. Those drivers can push out the bass. I might wonder about the upstream components. I changed ICs on a component last week and was stunned by the shift in bass. I'm no expert, just a thought.

[echarlie]

Have you tried turning the gain up on the plate amp to boost the volume of the Augie bass driver? If you turn it up 6 dB you should get the output equivalent to two Augies. Just be careful of the total volume level so you don't over drive the woofers

I have sort of done this but as you stated, I dont want to cause damage to anything.  Plus this doesn't seem to be a proper "fix" for what I am wanting.  However, I may not understand how to adjust the xover points and gain properly. I don't have any sort of measuring equipment and I must admit the current placement could be better.  The baffles atm are 27" from the wall.  no side walls for reflection though.  only the back wall. carpeted floors w/ no subfloor.  baffles are currently mounted on wood cabinet drawer pulls for "feet".

I might wonder about the upstream components.

System is:

Dual CS 5000 turntable w/ Shure V-15 or Sumiko Andante cartridge
Lehmann Audio Black Cube phono stage (modded)

Rega Apollo
Sonos ZP90 "Connect"
Schiit Audio Bifrost DAC

Opera Audio Consonance T-99 pre-amp

Jim Nicholls custom built EL34 ultra linear stereo tube amp - pushing the coaxials

Keiga KG-5230 plate amp - pushing the Augies

All interconnects, speaker cables, power cords etc. are all Signal Cables brand.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Great advise do far. I especially like the idea of rigging up the temporary wings.
That's a free and quick test.

Turn the XO knob clockwise a bit. That will help "grab" more of the higher bass frequencies. Maybe turn it fully clockwise, then back about a 1/4 turn.
Also, flip the polarity switch on the two plate amps. That might help a bit.

Bob

[panomaniac]

The Hawthornes with Augies I've heard always had the Auguies at too low a level, as tho the owners were afraid to turn them up.
Also, the crossover on the main 15" does not favor the midbass, which is a problem.  The response tends to be upper mid hot, which may be what you are hearing.  As Bob notes, try raising the crossover frequency of the Augies to hear what you find.

[SteveRB]

I would start by first asking if you have heard open baffle bass that satisfies your bass addiction...

OB bass is fantastic but much different feeling in room when compared to a bass reflex or sealed box. I think that if the original poster is looking for the kick in the chest thump than OB may not be the best solution. Perhaps adding a couple sealed subs for the very low end and let your augies roll off a bit higher.

[doak]

The Hawthornes with Augies I've heard always had the Auguies at too low a level, as tho the owners were afraid to turn them up.
Also, the crossover on the main 15" does not favor the midbass, which is a problem.  The response tends to be upper mid hot, which may be what you are hearing.  As Bob notes, try raising the crossover frequency of the Augies to hear what you find.

Been listening to and through a pair of Hawthorne Sterling Trios for over 4 years. 
Feed to main drivers uses a 1st order high pass R/C network with a knee frequency of about 100Hz.
This improves clarity by largely freeing them of the job of trying to produce low frequencies.
It also lightens the load on the amp(s) used to power the SSI drivers.

Crossover to the pair of Augies per side is 3rd order around 100Hz.  An ATI 1502 powers them with about 175wpc into the nominal 4 ohm load.  The amp has clipping indicator lights and I've never seen them blink despite trying to do so on a few occasions.  No prob playing loud enough for me.   
A set-up similar to what I've described above may be worth a looking into.


OB bass is of a different quality than "box bass".  To me it is more "natural" sounding and makes boxed woofers sound distorted in comparison. 

[ttan98]

Doak,

I don't know whether you remember me I heard your speakers at your home around 2009-2010 when I was in the States. I am from Australia.

Thanks letting me into your home, your speakers sounded very good. I agree with you need 2 woofers for bass.

Cheers.

[doak]

Doak,

I don't know whether you remember me I heard your speakers at your home around 2009-2010 when I was in the States. I am from Australia.

Thanks letting me into your home, your speakers sounded very good. I agree with you need 2 woofers for bass.

Cheers.

Greetings,,

Sure I remember - still have the 'roo you left me.   

Thanks for the compliment on the system.   

I've owned/used Hawthorne OBs with 1) Just the 15" Silver Iris (Solos), 2) Duos with 15" SI and 1 15" Augie. and 3) SSI Trios with 15" Sterling Silver Iris and 2 Augies.  IMO ALL of these speakers are capable of "doing bass."   No doubt in the large space I have the dual Augies implemented the way I have do a VERY good job with bass.  Other situations, rooms, personal preferences may dictate otherwise in other applications.

[nshawks]

Another thing I'd consider would be whether you need to add some room treatments, like bass traps. You may in fact have a lot of cancellation occurring due to the dimensions of the room and the contents therein. I had very little bass in my listening room, but by adding a few bass traps I now have very nice bass response.   It may not be the lack of bass output, but the lack of bass perception. Adding more drivers won't help much if you have cancellation occurring.

[echarlie]

I would start by first asking if you have heard open baffle bass that satisfies your bass addiction...

My pair of OBs are the only pair I've ever heard so the answer to that I guess would be no. LoL

OB bass is fantastic but much different feeling in room when compared to a bass reflex or sealed box. I think that if the original poster is looking for the kick in the chest thump than OB may not be the best solution. Perhaps adding a couple sealed subs for the very low end and let your augies roll off a bit higher.

I've definitely considered this.  I have a pretty cheap AR powered sub that I've tried this with and I will admit I do like it but that sub doesnt have a way to pick upper and lower points.  just one setting for XO. 

[Tyson]

Buy a mic for $48 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=390-801 and download free measurement software from HOLMimpulse and stop guessing.

[playntheblues]

Tyson do you like HOLM a lot better than REW?  As you know I am just getting started ans want to start with the rigth one.

[Tyson]

HOLM is certainly more powerful, and its the most useful for looking at measurements when doing crossover work, and it's the one I've personally used the most, so it's the one I like the best. 

[richidoo]

The Augies have high Qts to make them play low and loud. But it's still open baffle, most of the bass energy cancels. Adding another one will make the bass that you already have louder, but it will not play lower. And you can make the Augies louder just by turning it up with the plate amp, so more Augies is not what you want. Open baffle bass is not usually "hard solid" bass, often more ethereal, but great for room acoustics. I suggest you add a pair of real subwoofers, sealed, with low Q drivers and low resonance, active amp with flexible controls so you can fine tune the augie and sub to perfection.  Sealed bass with boost EQ adjustments will give you the hard hits you want. With fine music there is a fine line between what feels good and what's too much, so flexible sub controls are important to get it just right.

Nice looking baffles!  Very sweet!