[Berto]

I bought these amps second hand on Agon. The short time I owned them (few weeks) I left them on, practically the whole entire weekend. I had no issues whatsoever.  It seems to me it's a defective issue with the amp that they sold you. I think there policy is more in place , so that when they do sell defective merchandise ,  they can place the blame on the customer, and even make another sale. Sophia tubes ain't cheap, cannot imagine anyone wanting to shorten the life of them to avoid being "negligent" per Sophia.  I would also buy the transformer ( on ebay, etc if it can be had cheaper). Install locally and SELL and that's if I paid cash, if I paid Amex well they might just have to see things my way!

[Quiet Earth]

happyrabit,

What was the longest period of time that you ever left the amplifier turned on during the initial burn-in period?

How many times did you run the amp continuously for more than 12-14 hours? Just curious.


FWIW in the future :

For new vacuum tubes and for a new tube power amplifier too, I think it's a good idea to run it for 4 or 5 hours continuously and then turn it off for at least an hour or two. Do this for a total of ten times or until you have accumulated about 50 hours. After that, you should be able to turn it on and use it all day long. After all, that's what it is made for.

It's probably not good practice to burn in a new tube power amplifier by just turning it on and leaving it on for several days or weeks. DACs and preamps, sure, but not power amps. My 2cents.

[Docere]

Irrespective of what is printed in the manual, there is a general expectation than an amplifier be able to be turned on for as long as you would like to listen to music. That an amplifier cannot achieve this due to a known issue – an under-specified power transformer no less – suggests a rip. That issue could be easily addressed by the manufacturer. What we have here is a poorly engineered amplifier, constructed as cheaply as possible, with the marketeers hyping the product on pseudo-history and trying to protect themselves with a dubious clause in the manual. Over here in Australia it would not wash – it would be a warranty fix.

Now for a deserved shot at the promoters of this amp: That Jeff Day did not take a look at the innards and notice the (lack of) quality of workmanship and did not fact-check his review speaks volumes. I won’t be visiting Jeff’s Place. Nor will I consider buying a Sophia product (not that I ever did).  Neither would give a crap, but there it is.

Poor form.

[SET Man]

Hugh,

On Page 1

"Do not operate tube amplifiers around clock or you would have risk of shortening the life span or  damaging tubes and amplifiers.  Take a break for every 4-5 hours session of running amplifiers by turning amplifiers off for 30-45min    Sue"

Brand new units. Warranty Void due to 'negligence' on my part.

Rex,

Lesson Learned.   

Dwight

Hey!

    That's **** up if you ask me. Seriously!  Geez... no wonder I've never seen them at any show. I guess because they can't run they amps all day during the show. 

"Brand new units. Warranty Void due to 'negligence' on my part."

   Really? Was there any warning about this on the manual that came with the amps? If there is the first thing I would do is to send them back for a refund. This is not your false. As Docere mentioned, it is likely the power transformer used is under-spec and heat up too much.

   Also, it sounds like they know about this problem. They should have put this on they website also.

   I would tell them that you've never heard any tube amp companies say to limit listening time like this. And do tell them about this thread on their products. I feel that you are entitle for a free repair under the warranty on this. If they will not do that than maybe you can find someone local to help you out or if you are handy with soldering iron... just buy transformer from them and install it.

   Anyway, good luck.

Take care,
Buddy



   

[Hugh]

Just for comparison purpose only.
This is the innard of Melody SET M845.

[FullRangeMan]

   I would tell them that you've never heard any tube amp companies say to limit listening time like this. And do tell them about this thread on their products. I feel that you are entitle for a free repair under the warranty on this. If they will not do that than maybe you can find someone local to help you out or if you are handy with soldering iron... just buy transformer from them and install it.

Buddy

Among these chinese brands is usual use underated parts and use no protection at all for the output tube in case of a tube failure, seems they are waiting this happen to sell replace párts.
One tubed pre-phones owner manual say ''cool down for every 8 hours of continuous play time.''

On other North American brand there is not this hours info, just various comparative temperature info, which may be dangerous.

[SET Man]

Among these chinese brands is usual use underated parts and use no protection at all for the output tube in case of a tube failure, seems they are waiting this happen to sell replace párts.
Woo Audio inform in his WA-2 Owner Manual it should ''cool down for every 8 hours of continuous play time.''

Hey!

   Wow!  I saw them at the NY Audio show last year. They were there with their headphone stuffs only. Although not my kind of style but nice machined chassis I must say. But cool down very 8 hrs? Really? I guess they spent all the money on the pretty chassis than cheap out on the inner?

   Thanks for the info man. Here's is another brand that I would not buy.

   But at least the Woo Audio's are cheaper. Sophia's ain't cheap though 

   Seeing all of these make me love my SET monoblocks of 13.5 years even more! 8-10hrs of listening time? No problem. If anything they are a bit overbuilt.

Take care,
Buddy

[Quiet Earth]

Among these chinese brands is usual use underated parts and use no protection at all for the output tube in case of a tube failure, seems they are waiting this happen to sell replace párts.
Woo Audio inform in his WA-2 Owner Manual it should ''cool down for every 8 hours of continuous play time.''

So what you're saying then is,,,  even though Woo and Sofia are built in the U.S.A., the fact that they are designed by Chineese engineers is something we should all avoid? Made in the USA is just a marketing ploy huh?  Interesting thought. I have seen that warning in the Woo manual and wondered.....  But I always thought it was because there are so many tweakers out there for the Woo products that he/they did not want to be liable.

I read Sofia's company history, and you would never guess that people with so much collective tube and electronics experience would ever build an amplifier that could only stay on for 4 hours. I have a feeling there is a piece of the puzzle that's missing in this story. It's just way too wrong in so many ways.    Are you holding out on us happyrabit?

I must admit though that I was not inspired by the Sofia picture of the inside. Of course, bundling everything up nice and tidy is no guarantee that you have a quality piece either. It does look better though. 

[FullRangeMan]

According PDF manual on these sites.
They inform it in the manual for safety, but I unaware the reason behind it maybe it is too much hours for the tubes etc
It depend on how many time the old tubes amps from the past usually would run safety as McIntosh, Marants, AR etc
Maybe 8 hours is much time.

This other USA brand dont say hours limit, which may be worse as they inform various comparative unuseful temperature info to custumer reference in page 8, but no Hours limit:
http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP2owners%20manual.pdf

[Bemopti123]

Just because something is well laid out, it means not much about what components it uses, it simply shows that there is some pride in execution.  Melody as well as other brands made in the Far East should be placed in a blank category of things that are shoddily made.  But one thing can be typically assumed, you get what you paid for...and I never really understood how some companies could sell tubed gear weighting about 60lbs for 5 or 6 hundred dollar bills.  Dang, they might fetch more for the iron alone.  hahahah. 

But, going back to the Sophia amp...  that is pricey.  Wew.  I would have stashed my $$$$ on a different maker rather than these people.  Much luck with this ordeal.

[Docere]

I read Sofia's company history, and you would never guess that people with so much collective tube and electronics experience would ever build an amplifier that could only stay on for 4 hours. I have a feeling there is a piece of the puzzle that's missing in this story. It's just way too wrong in so many ways.    Are you holding out on us happyrabit?

Hi Quiet…

Perhaps I have misinterpreted your point, but are you saying that according to their self-proclaimed experience they are beyond reproach… that they would not build a faulty amplifier and that a customer that has had an issue is “holding out”?
 
The excerpt from the manual, email, and photos provided pretty-much tell the story. Unless Dwight is slanderously fabricating the whole scenario (to what end?), this is poor on behalf of Sophia.  Against a background of what appears to be deceptive marketing (WE91) and a history of mildly controversial tube reselling practices, including the need to purchase a warranty that most suppliers provide in the base cost of their tubes… well, you make your own decision.

Regarding the build, immediately obvious issues with the Sophia are missing grommets, generally poor quality components and quite possibly some under-specified components.

Cheers.

[happyrabbit]

I went and found the manual supplied with the amps.  Please see pics.   No reference to an endurance limit.... Sophia mentions abuse / negligence in the warranty.  Obviously leaving the amp on for 24hrs is "verboten"  Silly me...  Quite Earth please call Sue @ Sophia Electric and reference my name.   I am looking forward to your thoughts.  I am not unhappy with the 91-01 300b sound nor the sophia tubes..  I am disappointed with the fact that the  91-01 lasted @ 1.5 months and the lack of warranty support.

[Quiet Earth]

Did you buy the amp from a dealer,or on eBay?

[happyrabbit]

[Quiet Earth]

Hi Quiet…

Perhaps I have misinterpreted your point, but are you saying that according to their self-proclaimed experience they are beyond reproach… that they would not build a faulty amplifier

No, that's not what I was trying to say. I don't give a rat's ass about Sophia electric, and I swear I will never buy Chinese tubes ever again as long as I don't have to. But we live in a world where people can post whatever they want on the Internet, and I just want to know all the facts before I hang someone publicly.

Dwight,
I feel great empathy for you bro, having been there myself.  I want to see you get the situation corrected too, but I think you need to stay calm so you can resolve it properly. I appreciate you sharing all of this so we can learn, but some of this stuff doesn't seem to add up. There is no mention about continuous operation in the manual, so I don't know why you would have volunteered the info to Sophia in the first place.

[happyrabbit]

Hugh

845 socket is 

I am a bit jealous.....its sooo BIG

Dwight

[Bemopti123]

Why do I sense Big Brother coming and clamping down on this discussion?  It might set off the "dirty laundry" meter for all that I know. 

Man, if I had spent almost 40 hundred dollar bills on a pair of monos that lasted 1.5 months, dude I would be riding wherever I could like the Mongols. 

I honestly think that you did your part but having the company weasel out of their warranty responsibilities and stuck you with the bill of an underspecified transformer and then slap you with a $400 labor fee, that is outrageous.  Good luck bro....and perhaps with this sort of thing is what drives people away from high end and especially tube audio. 

[orientalexpress]

wow,That alot dough for a pair of 300b.for That kind money,They're should treat with white glove and send you another pair for free.

[Ericus Rex]

Since the deal about only having the amp on for 5 hours max was not listed in the manual I feel you have the right to claim this as a warranty issue.  Put up a stink with Sophia, mention the bad press here and if that doesn't work threaten litigation.  They should repair the amp for free.

[roadkingraw]

Not that I can add much to this, but today I am sending a second set of 6SN7 tubes back to Sophia for replacement.  This is the second set since the middle of December.  Developing grunge in one of the tubes and horrible microphonics.  They are a Grade A matched pair.  Very disappointed so far with the product.  Preamp was checked out by Modwright before the second set was put in and every thing checks out perfect.  Stock tubes have not had any problems in over two years of use.