[Quiet Earth]

Headphone amp shootout from EtM .....  http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1212/headphone_amplifier_shootout.htm

I thought it was odd that the reviewer chose the Woo WA22 to listen to his IEM phones. Shouldn't he have chosen the WA-6SE instead? Or used different phones? I'm a little bit confused about that.

If any of you own one of these amps, I would like to read a personal comment from you.  I'm considering a new amp for the times when I want to listen to music without disturbing anyone else in the house. There sure are a lot to choose from. Wow!

[hibuckhobby]

I have the WA6...which he recommended as an alternative for IEM's and
the WA2 which does very well with high impedance cans because it is OTL.
It is unfortunate that the reviewer did not have the ability to swap out tubes
nor did he try changing left side tubes with the right, because IME it is often
the tubes and not the amp that make noise.  This is especially true with
NOS tubes that will quiet down after 20-30 hours of use.

Tube amps are not for people who want to turn them on and forget them.
With that said, both of my amps have hummed with bad tubes and both
are dead quiet now.
Hibuck....

[Quiet Earth]

Hibuck,

It seems like whenever I read about Woo, people are constantly rolling the tubes. They even have adapters so you can use tubes with different kinds of pins.  Do you think all this tube rolling is because people just want to know what every possible type of tube sounds like in a Woo? Or do you feel like you have to go through a bunch of tubes before a Woo sounds right?

The reason why I ask is because when I look at a Woo, let's say the WA- 6SE, it looks like it would be perfect right out of the box with the stock tubes. It already has a good looking circuit layout with all the right parts, so the different tubes should only be different shades of the same sound. Does that sound right?

Or do you have to finish a Woo design by deciding what the correct tubes should be?     Seems like Woo would have already done this himself. It's confusing to me.

[Diamond Dog]

It seems like whenever I read about Woo, people are constantly rolling the tubes. They even have adapters so you can use tubes with different kinds of pins.  Do you think all this tube rolling is because people just want to know what every possible type of tube sounds like in a Woo? Or do you feel like you have to go through a bunch of tubes before a Woo sounds right?

Maybe they're just aware of what a bunch of obsessive seekers we are and it amuses them to watch us scramble after the "absolute sound" so they put things like adaptors within our reach just to add to the fun.
In all seriousness, it seems like the Woo folks have a very different view of tube rolling compared to say, EveAnna Manley. You get the feeling from her that tube-rolling her gear is something she views as a fool's errand but she knows we're gonna do it so what the hey, guys, knock yourselves out...

The reason why I ask is because when I look at a Woo, let's say the WA- 6SE, it looks like it would be perfect right out of the box with the stock tubes. It already has a good looking circuit layout with all the right parts, so the different tubes should only be different shades of the same sound. Does that sound right?

That's a really interesting observation, QE.  I've rolled everything but the regulators in my Neo-Classic 300B and it's a very different beast to my ears compared to what it was like with the factory tubes. Has the actual character of the unit changed ? I don't know about that - it certainly sounds better but is it different ?
Maybe it's just all it can be now - potential realized within the confines of the original design. Another thing that makes you go " Hmmmm..."

D.D.

[hibuckhobby]

I think there are two reasons:
first there is the OCD that accompanies most who are seriously involved with the hobby
If there is good sound available with middle grade tubes, then just think what a whole
cadre of NOS tubes would sound like? (or so the reasoning goes)

Secondly, some of the changes that come from roling tubes are not subtle with the most
surprising changes being rectifiers...which one would think make no difference at all   
I have done some rolling and have found combinations that give me the tonal palette I prefer. 
Is it better?  Well...I like it better and that's what matters to me.  With that said, Woo amps
sound very good out of the box and with the tubes provided.  (and better after burn in)
regards,
Hibuck....

[SteveFord]

I've found with the WA6 that rolling tubes changes the sound a bit but not drastically. 
Some will have more bass, some more top end but the overall sound remains consistent.
I think that we roll tubes just for the fun of it - what does this sound like compared to this? 

[Quiet Earth]

Steve and hibuck,

Thanks for the confirmation on the Woo. That's what I figured but always wanted to ask.

[Diamond Dog]

If I might tap into your considerable experience, guys - would you say that most of the tube gear you've had experience with retains a basic sonic character that can be refined using better/different tubes but not dramatically altered? Have you encountered any units which were so reflective of the tubes used in them that you were surprised by the amount of impact tube-rolling had ?

hibuck : my experience with rectifiers is very much like yours. People I discussed this with ( including people involved in the manufacturing of what little tube gear I've owned ) did indeed tell me that rolling rectifiers would have little if any impact. I went along with that until bad luck with the Chinese 5AR4's I was using ( same as stock tubes ) led me to experiment a bit. Turns out the difference was not subtle...who knew? As a side benefit, the rectifiers I ended up liking also don't fail like the ones the factory used ( and replaced with more of same until I got fed up ). Change you can believe in!

D.D.

[SteveFord]

That's a good question.
Take my Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 preamp: it really sounds like a top tier solid state preamp but without even a hint of grain.
I replaced the stock Russian tubes with another brand of Russian tubes and it sounded the same.  I replaced those with some NOS Amperex Bugle Boys and I gained some warmth but there's no way it will ever sound like an old Grundig table radio. 
I did find a fair amount of difference in tubes used in a Jolida phono stage, though.  The ElectroHarmonix tubes were kind of dull sounding while the current JJ Teslas are really dynamic. 

[Diamond Dog]

That's a good question.

Even the blindest, stupidest pig roots up the odd kernel of corn.

D.D.

[SteveFord]

I think you might have the best headphone "amp" going with the Manley.

[hibuckhobby]

I too, have found that various tubes have more bass and treble than others.
Still others impact the "intimacy" of the music...by which I mean the perspective
of the soundstage being forward or having a mid-hall perspective.  Case in point:
The sophia princess 274b in the WA6 vs an NOS Amperex GZ34.  The Sophia has
a more laid back midrange that is kind to poorly recorded rock...as well as a slightly
looser bass...which makes the music "fun".  The Amperex has taut bass and excels
in defining images within the soundstage which is slightly less spacious than the 274b.

This is with NOS RCA 6DE7 drivers.  If you change the drivers...then disregard the above.
For me it's about synergy.
Hibuck.....

ps...The Manley 300b preamp is a KILLER headphone amp.

[Noseyears]

ps...The Manley 300b preamp is a KILLER headphone amp.

Im not a tube guy, but i think this Manley amp doesn't get all the love it deserves. The woo Wa5 is on a similar level of performance.

[Diamond Dog]

I think the Manley is a little too "out there" for a lot of folks ( and therefore perfect for me  ). I do love mine.  I love the look of the Woo stuff and they have a solid and large base of supporters for good reason.
Me, I'm just dyin' to see what Quiet Earth comes up with on his quest for a headphone amp. The man has ears.

D.D.

[Quiet Earth]

I'm just dyin' to see what Quiet Earth comes up with on his quest for a headphone amp.

That makes two of us. 

I don't know how far I want to go with this, since I don't think I will spend too much time with the phones on. Then again if it turns out to be epic, it could become a daily dose..... what a mess I've made for myself.

I have considered a pre with headphone out, or a headamp with preamp out,,, however you want to look at it. That is a possibility. The Manley is on the radar, but I think that might be just too much 300B love for me. (In other words, a 300B pre driving a 300B amp might be too much of the same sound.)

I'm still learning a lot and will need to pick all of your brains from time to time. What a great problem to have!