600R power off time

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tonyptony

600R power off time
« on: 12 Jan 2013, 01:59 am »
I normally turn the music off before powering off my 600R. But when I have kept the music playing I never really noticed how long it keeps going after I flip off the power on the amp. Tonight I was surprised only because it seemed shorter than usual. We're talking pleasant, not loud, listening volumes... "normal" volumes. Does anyone else with a 600R have any info for how long it keeps pushing out the music at nominal volumes when the power switch is turned off?

I know, too many variables - but humor me.

floresjc

Re: 600R power off time
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jan 2013, 03:44 am »
Same thing happens on my Fet Valve Ultra 550. It stays on a good while, maybe 10-15 sec or so before it finally fades away completely. I assume that some power is kept in "reservoir" somewhere in the system and its just draining out on power off.

Brett Buck

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Re: 600R power off time
« Reply #2 on: 12 Jan 2013, 08:39 pm »
Same thing happens on my Fet Valve Ultra 550. It stays on a good while, maybe 10-15 sec or so before it finally fades away completely. I assume that some power is kept in "reservoir" somewhere in the system and its just draining out on power off.

   The use of the word "reservoir" is appropriate. The "reservoir" is the power supply filter capacitors. Under normal operation, they take a full-wave rectified voltage signal that looks like  a series of bumps, where the voltage in jumping up and down at 120 hz. but spending most of the time near the peak. The capacitors stores some energy on the way up, and then release it as the voltage goes down. This fills in the low spots between bumps. The net effect is to smooth out the voltage signal and make it a clean and more-or-less constant voltage. To simplify it, the larger these capacitors are, the smoother this voltage will be. Take them out, and it would probably still play but there would likely be a 120 hz hum. On a 300 watts/channel amplifier, they are quite large (since the more power you supply to the speakers, the faster the voltage will decay between bumps, everything else being equal). When you turn off the power, the charging voltage goes away but the capacitor have stored a pretty good bit of energy, which then keeps it going for some amount of time while the capacitor voltage decays away. You can see how well it must be working as a filter - if it keeps playing for 10 seconds, imagine how little it must decay in 1/120hs of a second between bumps.

    Used to be that everybody put in the biggest power supply capacitors you could fit in the box, and in some cases there were external cap boxes to get around the space issue. They looked like Campbell's soup cans in terms of size.  I think most people have clued in to the idea that this may not be ideal.

     Power supply capacitors are usually the life-limiting item in many cases. I repair old radios and vintage hi-fi equipment and I usually won't power up the radio until I have replaced them.

    Brett

avahifi

Re: 600R power off time
« Reply #3 on: 12 Jan 2013, 09:50 pm »
Modern PC mount electrolytic power supply capacitors are MUCH more durable than those old one ones of years ago.  Their volumetric efficiency has improved by about 1000 percent and their service life is nearly unlimited now.  We see our designs 30 years old coming in occasionally and rarely see a failed capacitor.

The length the amp will stay on after turn off is dependent upon the volume you are playing at the time.  With the Fet Valve amps there is no change in output at all until the regulated power supplies bleed down to their reference supply capacitors voltage, then they will slowly fade out at turn off.

Frank

Brett Buck

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Re: 600R power off time
« Reply #4 on: 13 Jan 2013, 05:14 am »
Modern PC mount electrolytic power supply capacitors are MUCH more durable than those old one ones of years ago.  Their volumetric efficiency has improved by about 1000 percent and their service life is nearly unlimited now.  We see our designs 30 years old coming in occasionally and rarely see a failed capacitor.

    That doesn't surprise me. After rebuilding a large number of radios, I can predict the brands and sizes prone to failure at a glance. Some are still good even from the 30's, certain brands and sizes from the 60's are absolutely guaranteed to be dead. The modern era types are remarkably smaller than the originals.

    Surprisingly a lot of the old upright chassis-mount multi-section caps are still good even from the 40s and 50s. In cases where there is no power transformer to destroy, I frequently test with them in place, since the possibility of damaging anything else is minimal.

    Brett