about to take plunge with tube amp- choice of 2. Help!

Bigfishhk · « **on:** 2 Jan 2013, 05:04 pm »

Am going to buy an integrated tube to run with my ST's and Rythmik sub.

Hope some of you can help me decide:

1. JOLIDA jd1000rc
EL34 based. 100wpc
(Jim S thought would be good choice btw)
Used- approx 4 years old. tubes 1 yr old.

TUBES- 4 matched pairs - 8 of 6CA7/EL34 power output; 2 pcs. 12AX7 pre-amplifier; 2 pcs. 12AT7/ECC81 power drivers.

http://www.jolida.com/product/tubeamp/jd1000rc

2. ROGUE TEMPEST mk 1
approx 9 yrs old.
40 watts triode/ 60 watts ultra
it has an internal fan- noisy?
TUBES- The original Tempest had a tube complement of four 12AU7s, two 12AX7s and four KT88s
http://www.audaud.com/audaud/NOV01/EQUIP/equip3NOV01.html

ANY THOUGHTS ARE MOST WELCOME! Hope to make purchase today.
thanks
TOm

medium jim · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 05:25 pm »

I have a pair of Marantz 9's that run on a quad of 6CA7/EL34's each....it is only rated at 70 in UL and 40 in Triode....I know it is actually closer to 90watts only because I have hand selected tubes in it that have nice headroom and don't distort early.

I prefer the EL34 voicing over the KT88, but that is me and to you the KT88's may be more pleasant to your ears. I like 12AX7's, as they have a 100mu gain, but tend to be more microphonic for the same reason. The 12AT7's are more forgiving and are still very musical. Added advantage of the ECC81/12AT7's...they tend to be less expensive if you decide to go NOS. BTW, the 12AT7 has a gain factor of 60MU and you can go with an industrial tube CV4024 that will last forever and is also nice and musical.

I had a Jolida several years ago and it had a front-end issue that they took care of without hesitation...I also liked their remote. The Jolida has decent tranny's (very important) and is easy to bias.

The advantage of the Rogue is that it has the ability to play in Triode which is really nice as it allows all the harmonics to come through. The fan can be either replaced or repaired....it shouldn't be noisy in normal operation.

I think I may have confused the issue, sorry....

Jim

rollo · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 06:07 pm »

It would be prudent to determine what character of sound you desire with the Amp Speaker combo. Salks are very neutral to the amp used. so do you want to add warmth ? Stay neutral ? would your source mate well with the amp ?
Once you determine the sonic result desired it would be helpful in suggesting an amp to try.

charles

Nuance · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 07:45 pm »

I'd go with the Jolida; more power and the tubes are still pretty fresh.

Plus that brand is pretty solid IMO.

jtwrace · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 08:37 pm »

What about maybe stretching your budget and get the Salk recommended amp that he uses as shows?

See here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=112380.0

putz · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 09:34 pm »

I ran my Songtowers with a Jolida 502BRC and was very happy with the sound. The 502 uses KT88s as i wanted the extra punch they gave over the EL34s found in the Jolida 302 i was also considering (Jim S said he preferred the 34s when I asked him back then). I was also able to output to a Subwoofer from the Jolida which was nice and the Remote was handy.

When I sold my Songtowers earlier this year, I hooked them up to the Jolida and the guy ended up buying the amp as well caused he really liked the way they sounded together. I would have kept the Jolida but my HT3s demanded more power and I needed the $$ to buy a new Amp and Preamp.

never heard a Rogue so just commenting on my Jolida experience.

Early B. · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 09:41 pm »

I'd go for the Rogue due to better build quality, reputation, and service.

geowak · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 10:39 pm »

I have heard the Rogue stuff and did like it. But I also tested the Line Magnetic Audio 216IA at Don Better Audio. I actually feel in love with this ptp wired model. It sounded better than the Rogue to me, so I bought it! Never heard the Jolida stuff, but I think AudioKarma.org has a following of this brand under Grant Audio forum.

http://donbetteraudio.com/products/amplifiers/

won ton on · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 10:42 pm »

How about the Cary SLi-80 , came close to getting one myself.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 12:42 am »

Quote from: jtwrace on 2 Jan 2013, 08:37 pm

What about maybe stretching your budget and get the Salk recommended amp that he uses as shows?

See here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=112380.0

Am not looking for SS gear. And space and budget mean integrated works best for now.
Thanks

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 12:43 am »

Quote from: Nuance on 2 Jan 2013, 07:45 pm

I'd go with the Jolida; more power and the tubes are still pretty fresh. Plus that brand is pretty solid IMO.

Actually owner rolled tubes about 18 months ago.
Thanks
Tom

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 12:44 am »

Quote from: won ton on on 2 Jan 2013, 10:42 pm

How about the Cary SLi-80 , came close to getting one myself.

My budget is 1500 incl shipping

mick wolfe · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: geowak on 2 Jan 2013, 10:39 pm

I have heard the Rogue stuff and did like it. But I also tested the Line Magnetic Audio 216IA at Don Better Audio. I actually feel in love with this ptp wired model. It sounded better than the Rogue to me, so I bought it! Never heard the Jolida stuff, but I think AudioKarma.org has a following of this brand under Grant Audio forum.

http://donbetteraudio.com/products/amplifiers/

The Line Magnetic amps look like they'd easily be worth going over the $1500 budget mentioned. In the case of Pitch Perfect in San Fran, they're sold right along side the likes of Shindo. Either the EL34 or KT88 based units would work fine with the SongTower.

vortrex · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 04:47 pm »

+1 for Line Magnetic. extend your budget to $1650 if you can for the EL34 based model. I like it slightly better than the more expensive KT88 model.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 05:12 pm »

they look nice indeed.. but forgetting price for a moment, the power output seems low..?
15 watts per channel in triode, 32 watts per channel in ultra linear.

Tom

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 05:14 pm »

I love Rogue stuff. I have three of their products in my system. However, I think I'd avoid the Mk I version of the Tempest. It has a reputation of running the tubes fairly hard, resulting in tube replacement more often. And tubes ain't cheap! You could probably still find a Mk II, which has a totally redesigned circuit and sounds amazing, within your price range. If you could actually find a Mk II I'd recommend it over the Jolida as it is more versatile; you can roll in any normal octal - even the KT120, it has triode/ultra switching, has headphone and phono capability (phono board available from Rogue), uses 1/2 the tubes for nearly the same amount of power (the Mk II is 90 watts/channel in Ultralinear - and no fan in Mk II). It's also designed and built here in the US by good folk. If you wanted, you could have it upgraded to Mk III status and even do the Super Magnum upgrade for even better transparency if desired. My 2 cents.

mick wolfe · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: Bigfishhk on 3 Jan 2013, 05:12 pm

they look nice indeed.. but forgetting price for a moment, the power output seems low..?
15 watts per channel in triode, 32 watts per channel in ultra linear.

Tom

I ran the SongTowers with a 40 watt Bob Latino ST70 for a couple of years. It was really a sweet combination that never sounded stressed at reasonable SPL's.( mid 80's with mid to high 90 peaks) TAS made very positive comments on the SongTower/ VA Ultravalve combo.( 35 watts? ) I suspect the 32 watt rating just indicates the tubes are being run a tad more conservatively. Remember that tube amps sound much stronger and remain more composed than solid state amps of equal or even much higher power ratings. Plus you have a very nice Rythmik sub to help in the bass..... perhaps the only area these amps may come up a tad short.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 05:46 pm »

Quote from: mick wolfe on 3 Jan 2013, 05:42 pm

I ran the SongTowers with a 40 watt Bob Latino ST70 for a couple of years. It was really a sweet combination that never sounded stressed at reasonable SPL's.( mid 80's with mid to high 90 peaks) TAS made very positive comments on the SongTower/ VA Ultravalve combo.( 35 watts? ) I suspect the 32 watt rating just indicates the tubes are being run a tad more conservatively. Remember that tube amps sound much stronger and remain more composed than solid state amps of equal or even much higher power ratings. Plus you have a very nice Rythmik sub to help in the bass..... perhaps the only area these amps may come up a tad short.

Can't see from their website if they have SUB outs.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 05:47 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 3 Jan 2013, 05:14 pm

I love Rogue stuff. I have three of their products in my system. However, I think I'd avoid the Mk I version of the Tempest. It has a reputation of running the tubes fairly hard, resulting in tube replacement more often. And tubes ain't cheap! You could probably still find a Mk II, which has a totally redesigned circuit and sounds amazing, within your price range. If you could actually find a Mk II I'd recommend it over the Jolida as it is more versatile; you can roll in any normal octal - even the KT120, it has triode/ultra switching, has headphone and phono capability (phono board available from Rogue), uses 1/2 the tubes for nearly the same amount of power (the Mk II is 90 watts/channel in Ultralinear - and no fan in Mk II). It's also designed and built here in the US by good folk. If you wanted, you could have it upgraded to Mk III status and even do the Super Magnum upgrade for even better transparency if desired. My 2 cents.

yes I will not buy the Rogue Tempest mk 1 I agree
thanks

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Jan 2013, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 3 Jan 2013, 05:14 pm

I love Rogue stuff. I have three of their products in my system. However, I think I'd avoid the Mk I version of the Tempest. It has a reputation of running the tubes fairly hard, resulting in tube replacement more often. And tubes ain't cheap! You could probably still find a Mk II, which has a totally redesigned circuit and sounds amazing, within your price range. If you could actually find a Mk II I'd recommend it over the Jolida as it is more versatile; you can roll in any normal octal - even the KT120, it has triode/ultra switching, has headphone and phono capability (phono board available from Rogue), uses 1/2 the tubes for nearly the same amount of power (the Mk II is 90 watts/channel in Ultralinear - and no fan in Mk II). It's also designed and built here in the US by good folk. If you wanted, you could have it upgraded to Mk III status and even do the Super Magnum upgrade for even better transparency if desired. My 2 cents.

All that being said, if I found a Mk I cheap enough, or sold for parts, I'd buy it then send it in to Rogue for the Mk III upgrade. I think the only common parts are chassis and trannies. Should still be much cheaper then a new Mk III.