[Alwayswantmore]

Renaissance Edition, First Listen

I have an Isabellina HPA and Signature 15 upgraded to Renaissance Edition (RE) circuit boards burning in as I write. A few hours so far, just enough to hear some things I already like. Yet about 95 hours short of Vinnie’s recommendation for full burn in.

Six Years and Counting

My days with Vinnie go back to the time when 6Moons reviewed the original Signature 30 in July, 2006 (six years?)…

I had just purchased a First Watt F1 to drive AKG K1000 ear speakers, when a fellow headfier sent a PM linking the 6Moons review. A quick phone call to Connecticut found a very enthusiastic young designer encouraging me to give his new battery-powered creation a try – which I did.

After a very extensive A/B compare, I ended up paying the 10% restocking fee to return my F1, and began what has been a very interesting relationship with Red Wine Audio, and its founder Vinnie.

In the Sig. 30 timeframe, choosing between the natural tone of Vinnie’s off-the-grid approach, or a somewhat improved level of detail via the F1 was a trade-off. One product did not “have it all”. Roll forward to 30.2, then 30.2 LFP-V, and now for me the RE upgraded Sig 15, the decision would be much easier –- as Vinnie has been able to improve his sound in all dimensions, detail and punch included.

Context

With only a few exceptions, I have very little experience with contemporary products that may be competitive to RWA. But I do have MANY years ownership of relatively high-end products dating back to the days of Magnaplaner speakers (yes, a product made by Magnapan, but sold by Audio Research Corporation). Along with ARC 76a and SP3A-1, Lynn LP12, etc. If you know the gear, then you can guess the year.

I'm also a semi-pro musician, having rediscovered live music in early retirement, so I'm around real instruments on a regular basis. Luckily I've been able to play with some great local musicians, so the experience of up close and live in a great reference point.

Back to the Sig 30

With the exception of a brief honeymoon with a Wavelength Cosecant DAC a few years ago, I have stuck with Vinnie for the past six+ years. Sig 30 gets an upgrade to 30.2. Add an Isabella preamp, and the Sig 30.2 looses a knob and becomes a straight 2ch amp. Somewhere between the introduction of Isabella and the LFP-V Editions my relationship with Vinnie takes an even more interesting turn – even though I am not a writer, Vinnie asks if I will become a virtual team member, and help him with News Releases, his Web site content, etc. And I have done so ever since.

So as I have done since our relationship evolved beyond strictly vendor / customer, I disclose this relationship anytime I get into an extensive blog about one of RWA’s new offerings.

Does the relationship help or hurt when it comes to what I write? I’ll leave that for you to judge. But what I bring to the party is a good understanding of RWA's product line; a chance to have owned every iteration of Vinnie’s entry level amplifiers (never heard the Liliana Monoblocks); and a good track record of getting an early listen to Vinnie’s new creations, only to have my observations later validated by professional reviewers. For example, I was first to receive the Signature 15 when it came out, and I spelled out where IMO it had an upper hand on the Sig 30.2 LFP-V when matched with appropriate speakers. In my case, Omega Super 6 Monitors with Omega Deep Hemp sub – nearfield in a well-treated room (GIK). Read the reviews of the Sig 15, and you know if anything I was conservative in my praise for this gem.

[Alwayswantmore]

RE Announcement Is Near

Vinnie has been posting photos and little updates regarding RE on his Facebook page for some time now (you can access his Facebook from the main website). So RE is not a secret. And for those who follow RWA's Facebook, you've seen the product will evolve from understated black box, to beautiful wood faceplate and side panels. And in typical Vinnie fashion, we're not talking wood veneer. Nope, RE is 1/2" solid wood in your choice of Walnut, Cherry or Maple.

Upgrades Will Be Available Too

I'm originally from Minneapolis. And I've always been a fan of Audio Research gear, but their good stuff is way beyond my budget. I don't know if it's still true, but at least in the early days ARC did their best to offer factory upgrades where possible, so customers could stay current with the latest advancements. Vinnie has this same philosophy. That original Signature 30 purchased in 2006, if updated, would be the same look and electronics as the Signature 30.2 LFP-V Edition you can buy today. But alas, after 6 years of evolution, RE marks the end for 30.2 upgrades.

Enter the Signature 15, Liliana's and a few new amps to be introduced shortly under the RE umbrella.

Signature 15 is no Longer a Signature 15

At RE introduction, the Signature 15 becomes the Signature 16. Does it have more power? Yes. But the change in the amp is not about an additional watt into 8 ohms (or 2 into 4 ohms). The entire amp board is new. And the tube stage is new too. There will be a lot of details regarding what has changed on the new site, so I won't spend time on that here.

...Back to Upgrades, You Will Have Two Options

So yes, the Signature 15 I purchased a little over a year ago has now been upgraded to RE. Same with my HPA...

When Vinnie and I were working on the site, the plan was to offer a full RE upgrade. That means both the internal sonic improvements along with the new wood enclosure and some other benefits that come with RE packaging. But in my case, I could live with my very familiar black enclosures, so I asked Vinnie if he would consider offering a "sonic" upgrade, allowing existing customers to save a few bucks by foregoing the new enclosure. Vinnie liked the idea, so the announcement will give current customers two upgrade options when possible.

So what I am now in the process of breaking in looks no different on the outside (same black enclosures), but includes the following changes on the inside:

New RE Tube Stage (1 for each unit)
New SIG 16 Amp Stage
Updated Bellina DAC Board (Isabellina will now be known as Bellina -- making it easier to differentiate from Isabella)
And a "Renewed" 5-Year Warranty

And in my case I opted to upgrade to the ProDAC. The ProDAC (Bellina ProDAC) adds high resolution, but new to RE, also adds some leading edge USB technologies that work with both Red Book and high res playback.







 

[Alwayswantmore]

Tech alert! - Bellina Pro DAC

I don't know how much if any I will get into high res playback. Some folks seem to be pretty high on the stuff. In my case I have a Mac full of Red Book, and feel that Vinnie's 16-bit NOS, NOS DAC is tough to beat. This from the perspective of someone who values natural tone. When I say NOS, NOS -- the 16-bit DAC is New Old Stock, Non Over Sampling. Many may argue the tech advantages of other approaches, but I say trust your ears.

But with RE, Pro DAC is more than just high res. Vinnie is taking his DAC to the front of the class when it comes to USB technologies, at least at this price point.

If you know the leading edge for USB some of the following may mean a lot. If not, you can either Google the terms, or just go with your ears. The net is USB playback has made some interesting strides over the years. A few tid-bits on Pro USB...

Extracted from the soon to be released new web site...

BELLINA PRO ADVANCED USB SUPPORT (again, both Red Book and high res)

- Asynchronous mode USB-to-I2S conversion (USB 2.0 compliant)
- Integer-mode compatible
- Supports 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192k files (no driver required for Mac OS X) Note: 16-bit NOS DAC up to 96K

And one more goodie that comes with or without Pro...

USB input isolates your computer’s power bus from the internal DAC chip — an innovation called “galvanic isolation” — preventing computer noise from degrading the sound



From My First Listen

I wrote Vinnie today after my first listen, sharing that there was more there there (can't take claim to coming up with this phrase, but it DOES work to explain what I was hearing). Great example was listing to Case of You on Diana Krall Live in Paris. This cut is a close / hot recording. On my system I hear everything! Like felt lifting off piano strings. Mechanics of pedals and dampers as they move. The leading edge of the "c" in the word "case" of you. Vinnie responded...

"...the new USB interface brings out more detail, PRaT, and dynamics - compared to before.  So it's a big win no matter if you prefer NOS or HRZ."

In my case the units have yet to be broken in, and I'm listening the cumulative benefits of updated amp / tube stages, so no way for me to determine what aspect of improvement goes to the Sig 15/16 vs what goes to USB technology advancements.

One more note on the DAC, and again this applies to both the base 16-bit as Pro, the RE upgrade also offers (again from the soon to be released web site)...

Blacker backgrounds & improved dynamics — via upgraded DAC module, featuring 10x increase in capacitance and ultra-low-noise voltage regulation

It's late, so enough for one day. Good night. Kent

[Trismos]

Anyone else care to chime in?
If it's this good there must be others who wish to share...

[Alwayswantmore]

I am the first and only person to have an RE (excluding Vinnie). The formal announcement is coming very soon.

[Alwayswantmore]

...oh, and for what it's worth, I've only done my first impression. Somewhere around 20 - 25 hours I will probably share more thoughts on sound.

[Alwayswantmore]

Tidbit on Headphones

Nearfield with Super 6s has me spoiled. So very seldom do I listen to headphones. Even though headphones are not my thing, for a number of years I've attended local headfi meets. There are a couple guys my age who are really into it, so I've heard some top-level Stax electrostats, custom wired Audeze Editions, Sennheiser, Grado, etc. Among the best I've heard have been Stax, a monster balanced rig from Ray Samuels tied to Audeze being driven by a $15 - $20K CDP, and my own AKG K-1000s with Moon Silver Dragon and (at the time) Sig 30.2. Can't claim the K-1000s were best in every way, but they were fast, and oh so open as the ear speakers can be moved away from your ears. All these rigs were good, but still (IMO) a distant second to my 2-ch rig.

So in 2008 I sold my K1000s to help fund the Super 6s / Deep Hemp, and frankly never looked back.

The only headphones I now own are AKG 701s. I was looking for a moderate priced pair of phones, I had previously owned HD-650s run balanced, and at least for my money on my gear I like both the sound and comfort of the 701s.

In past years when I showed up at Charlotte Headfi meets with my HPA and 701s, my rig didn't get much attention, and admittedly was not in contention for best of show. But again, headphones are not my main thing, and I have no intention of making a major investment in headfi.

Since I'm committed to moderate priced phones, much of my time at a meet was dedicated to listening to 701s via a variety of amps. My HPA usually fared well by comparison, but frankly at the LFP-V iteration and NOS dec, lacked in terms of punch, dynamics and sparkle. The words I've used to describe what I hear is the unit was too polite. Many may enjoy the sound for leisure listening sessions, especially to vocals and acoustic instruments. But again, too polite for my taste.

RE HPA with Pro DAC Changes Things

I just got done listening to 701s, comparing via both DACs (Red Book files). Where so far I'm finding a strong preference for NOS on the 2ch system, the high res DAC definitely breaths additional life into these modest priced headphones. Not that I have anything sitting here to do a direct A/B, but based on past comparisons of HPA/NOS to other amps, I'm fairly confident that this is the best I've heard from these phones. And what I hear belies their modest price point.

Score one point for being able to choose between two DACs on the fly.

[Alwayswantmore]

Day 2, a Few Observations

Day two ends with me spending more time on the AKG 701s. Certainly they are not as critical as my Super 6s. After browsing through a variety of familiar source material I'll add a few more observations...

With these headphones the difference between NOS and high res is not as dramatic as I first thought. Vinnie would need to validate, but it's pretty clear to me that high res has more gain than NOS. Like a db or two, maybe more. So once the volume is normalized, the delta is not as great as I first thought.

Overall, even with NOS, IMO the RE is doing better with the 701s. Maybe as good as I've heard. And there is still material where the high res DAC (again with Red Book) still adds some life and sparkle that mates well with the 701s.

All and all, nice listening, but no substitute for my 2ch rig.

Tube Rolling

Over the years I've only had a few tubes in my rig. While several were very good, none (that I have experienced) has outdone my first minor investment in tubes -- 1965 USN-CEP (military grade) Amperex 7308 in both units.

Having done break in through several units, I learned a long time ago that stock JJs were not my thing, so from hour one I'm using the 7308s.

BTW: With New Years coming up, I may be out of the loop for a few days or more. But here are some of the things I hope to cover in the days to come:

- Vinnie makes a strong recommendation for Audivana as a platform for iTunes. You need to check them out on the Web, but the basic skinny is they get closer to the actual bits with less Mac OS between what's on your drive and what the DAC sees. They offer a 30-day free trial. So once I hit the 25-30 hour mark I plan to add this product to the mix.

- Obviously more to come on 2ch once the system has more time on it. I will also share a bit of my experience with speaker set up and room, IMO big factors in the final results you hear.

Have a great New Year! Kent

[radarnyc]

http://6moons.com/industryfeatures/rwarenaissance/1.html
Wow - lots of new options coming including some very affordable ones (Sig8). I think the only missing pricing information is on the new Bellina DACs.

[rlabarre]

http://6moons.com/industryfeatures/rwarenaissance/1.html

A double "WOW!"!!!

Vinnie, any options to upgrade an older Isabella/Isabellina/Headphone amp unit? What about the Lilianas?

In your experience, what does the 6H30 bring to the sound of the Isabella with the 6922-type tubes that is different? Similarly, what about the 12AX7 tube family with tube stages in products like the Lilianas?

Can't wait to hear more!!!

[NewMexiCat]

In your experience, what does the 6H30 bring to the sound of the Isabella with the 6922-type tubes that is different?

Ditto as to the question regarding the effect of the 6H30's in the Isabella.  I'm sure Vinnie will elaborate when he returns from Vegas!

[mytubes211]

I am the first and only person to have an RE (excluding Vinnie). The formal announcement is coming very soon.

Alwayswantmore,   sorry to upset you but I have these over six weeks now:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=112863.msg1172968#msg1172968

Ritchie

[rlabarre]

Alwayswantmore,   sorry to upset you but I have these over six weeks now:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=112863.msg1172968#msg1172968

Ritchie

Ritchie, lucky you!

What tubes have you used so far there with your new Lilianas? If you have had a chance to compare any of the 6922 tube family against any of the 12AX7 family, what's your preference so far and why?

[mytubes211]

Ritchie, lucky you!

What tubes have you used so far there with your new Lilianas? If you have had a chance to compare any of the 6922 tube family against any of the 12AX7 family, what's your preference so far and why?

Well, you will not believe but I go through so many tubes that is crazy. In my work lot of times I can found old audio system with tubes inside. I have Amprex Bad Boy's, Telefunken, GE, RCA 12ax7 all with square/D getter. Then I have 6922 family nice old Sylvania, RCA, GE and HP what I'm using now because they was new when I did buy them from "Andy" at vintage tubes service. Andy is in business for long, long time and he sell you only perfect working tube. From new production I use JJ gold pin and EH. JJ are not bad sound, but man they quality suck. I talk to Vinnie to get me from he's friend at ALO Audio good quality Create Audio 12AX7. Right before Vinnie go to CES Show I did send him six pair 12ax7/6922 tubes from 1950-69 to see what he thinks about sound.





Now me personally prefer 12ax7 over 6922. BUT, I will get some top line 6922/7308 no $$$ ask NOS Mullards gold pins from Andy and then I will know for sure. I found as right now 12ax7 family sound more silky but with no loosing resolution. Then Sylvania 6922 Gold series have bass to die for. Nice punch go to your chest, I love that
Like I say before, Lilianas can perfectly show you any differences in tubes. Then is just up to you what you prefer. 

Cheers Ritchie

[Alwayswantmore]

Alwayswantmore,   sorry to upset you but I have these over six weeks now:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=112863.msg1172968#msg1172968

Ritchie

OK Ritchie, I wasn't the 1st for this one. I'll take that, and sorry for not knowing (-; 

I know my Isabellina HPA (now Bellina RE Edition w/ ProDac) was first off the line... I asked Vinnie to date and sign the inside of the enclosure, and can show photos to prove it!

Life got in the way of audio, so I've been away for far too long. I have a few dozen more hours of break in and hope to test Audivana for iTunes soon. Also glad to see others are making the move to RE and Vinnie has a number of reviews in the works.

I'll post a report when I can find time to do an eval for Audivana as an addition to Bellina DAC. I must admit I'm a little skeptical as to whether or not the difference will be significant, but for $50 and a free evaluation period, I want to give it a shot.

Kent

[Gerry E.]

Hi Vinnie:

Any news on the Signature 8 including ETA?  Also, assuming the power differential is not significant, how does it sound compared to the Signature 16?  Thanks!

Gerry

[Alwayswantmore]

... I feel guilty for not having provided more info on my RE upgrades. Other commitments have kept me hopping since the holidays, with little time for quality listening. The next couple months promise to be a bit hectic too, but I will try to give you guys a bit more on the REs.

Personally, I most look forward to finding a window of time when I can test Audivana on my Mac (feeding USB to ProDAC). But I want to do this when I know I'll have a few hours to listen to the before and after (the software upgrade).

RE Upgrade Has Given Me What I Craved Most From My System

I'm now in the 100-hour range for burn in. Still using my Amprex NOS tubes. And for those who do not remember way back to my original posts, I'm running a Signature 15 + Isabellina HPA LFP-Vs that have now undergone the RE sonic upgrades to become...

Signature 16
Bellina HPA
With newly added upgrade to ProDAC

If you are a current RWA customer and interested in the RE upgrade, here's a link to upgrade features / pricing... http://redwineaudio.com/documents/renaissance-edition-upgrade.pdf

As a long time RWA customer (although this is not my first rodeo), I have always loved what RWA offers in terms of tone, timbre and soundstage. Certainly the move to LFP-V solidified these attributes as -- in my mind -- to  become a benchmark in terms of performance at a moderate price point.

At RWA prices -- especially short of their top models -- I expect some compromises will be made. With the Signature 30 / 30.2 and even 30.2 LFP-V, there was IMO a slight loss of sparkle in their high-end extension. Luckily the Signature 15/16 closed this gap quite nicely.

For my current rig (prior to upgrade), consisting of Sig 15 / Isabellina HPA with standard NOS DAC, my only real complaint was that sometimes the sound was a little polite. What I mean by this is I loved the tone, soundstage and overall dynamics, but felt like -- at least with some material -- I wanted a little more leading edge on certain instruments and a little more sense of presence from the performers.

Now I did not want the sound to go to transistors, did not want it to go hard, and did not want to give up on the nature tone that I so much love in Vinnie's gear, but I did yearn for a little more "there" in the performance.

I'm here to say that the combined upgrades I now have do this in spades...

- Overall dynamics are a notch better
- Definitely more "life" in everything I listen to
- Deep bass and mid-bass have more punch and great control
- Wind and brass instruments, vocals, etc. have a stronger leading edge, but never go bright or brassy (the timbre is still there)!

So the net, I am yet again amazed at what I hear at this moderate price point. And at least in the aggregate (combined upgrades), say this stuff is very good, and anyone with a good system / room, should find RE (along with the LFP-V upgrades) to be major steps forward for RWA. And a worthwhile upgrade.

Happy listening. Kent

[mytubes211]

Hi Ken
Thanks for take your time I give as your observations. This time you are first for sure 
I have home Signature 15/NOS DAC with Vinnie's Transport but then buy Lindemann 24/192 USB DAC for same reason as you point out with little short comings of RWA
Please, keep as informed

Cheers Ritchie

[Alwayswantmore]

Hi Ken
Thanks for take your time I give as your observations. This time you are first for sure 
I have home Signature 15/NOS DAC with Vinnie's Transport but then buy Lindemann 24/192 USB DAC for same reason as you point out with little short comings of RWA
Please, keep as informed

Cheers Ritchie

Hi Ritchie. I have always had a tremendous respect for Vinnie's NOS DAC. Tone, musicality, etc. But like I mentioned above, there have been times with certain source material I craved more leading edge -- kind of like the music is a little more in your face.

Thoughts on Bellina RE and ProDAC

For starters, I did something similar to your purchase of Lindemann 24/192 USB DAC about 2.5 years ago. In my case I ended up comparing the (new at the time) Isabellina HPA LFP-V Edition + NOS DAC with Wavelength Cosecant V3 Numerator 24/96 DAC. At the time Stereophile was real high on this unit and Ayre DAC, both of which incorporated Wavelength's async USB. In the end  I sold the Wavelengh on Agon. Here are a few para's from an AC thread I had created in Aug 2010...

"Tonight it was on to the 2ch room, this time as USB DAC with fixed outputs. Stock JJ traded out for 1965 USN-CEP (military grade) Amperex 7308. One round A/B with Wavelength Cosecant V3 Numerator 24/96 DAC, Holland made Amperex under Zenith label, further details unknown. Macbook via USB. Nearfield listening in nicely treated dedicated music room.

If you don’t know the Wavelengh V3 with this chip, it’s a hi-res USB DAC. Retail $3,500. Not too long ago (don’t know year for sure) it came in as Stereophile Class A (great review, too). Excellent review in 6Moons too.

What I hear

The HPA (as a DAC) is the best sound I’ve ever heard from my system. The sonic upgrade is obvious enough that it hit me from the first song.

Comparing the two DACs, the sound in so many ways is very similar. Both have tons of very good attributes. But honestly the HPA has a sense of ease that I just don’t get from the WL.

Oh, anyone interested in a great deal on a Stereophile Class A DAC?" 

This is also important: Bellina with ProDAC is probably the single most modified product in the RE lineup

If you dig through all the Bellina links on RWA web site, you will find mention of MANY upgrades to Bellina and ProDAC. With ProDAC, you even get some advanced USB capabilities that work on both NOS and hi-res files. One of the features new to RE is async USB. But there are many others.

So if you want more punch / edge, you should at least (IMO) talk to Vinnie about the RE upgrade and moving to ProDAC. Performance gains would then come in two forms:

1. You have the choice of using the hi-rez DAC, even on Redbook (16-bit) material. By nature, the Wolfson DAC has more bite than the NOS.

2. There are many other upgrades in the combo of RE upgrade + the new version of ProDAC that will add life to either NOS or hi-rez.

Good luck. Kent

[bmichels]

Please Alwayswantmore give us your complete tests including the Bellina connected to Audivana + Mac....