What can replace my SB Touch?

Jazzman53 · « **on:** 29 Dec 2012, 07:52 pm »

Hi All,
Now that Logitech has [stupidly, in my opinion] discontinued the SB Touch, I'm wondering what can replace it in my system, if and when the one I have craps out. I'm an old dog who's a complete dummy with computer audio and software -- even so, a couple of years ago I took the plunge into digital and bought myself a SB Touch and a digital DSP/Crossover. Now all my cd's are ripped to iTunes on my laptop and I now use the SB exclusively-- even replacing my old Carver C1 preamp, as I now just use the Toslink output into the DSP/Crossover/DAC, to the amps, and controlling it all with my IPad via the SqueezePad app. I love this setup-- the SB makes it so easy and I haven't seen anything else with similar features at anywhere near the price I paid for the SB. BTW, now that the SB Touch's are discontinued, they're going for $800+ on Ebay.

With my luck, my SB will crap out at some point and I'll be lost without it, so I need to start thinking about a replacement. What I'm looking for must 1) serve as a preamp, 2) stream internet radio and music files, 3) has a Toslink output, and 4) doesn't cost a lot. Suggestions anyone?

sts9fan · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 08:00 pm »

I have been thinking of this lately. Not really any options in the price range.

JoshK · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 08:44 pm »

I'd personally cross that road when you come to it, as I think there will be more options in 6 months to a year then there are now. The landscape is moving quickly. Logitech themselves might have something up their sleeve. Lots of other folks are looking at building network attached options as well.

I am a SB user myself. I have a couple of the second gen (which I can't find :scratch) and one 3rd gen. My DAC doesn't have USB input and I am not wanting to go that route yet.

avta · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 09:10 pm »

you could try an Apple Airport Express. It would allow you to stream ( wireless ) from your computer using the Airplay feature in iTines. You plug it into a receptacle somewhere near your stereo then connect it to your dac with a Toslink cable. iTunes allows you to stream internet stations as well as play music files but only 16/44 files not higher resolution ones. Check the Apple site for details of the AE. Its about $100.

rbbert · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 09:13 pm »

There are quite a few "network players" available, although I think all are more expensive than the SB.

Chromisdesigns · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 10:33 pm »

Squeezeplug runs on the Raspberry Pi and includes a Squeezeplayer client (I think the client software is still beta, but it's available), and it is/will be available for other "plug computers" as well.

That would be one option, probably need a DAC as well.

If/when my SB Touch dies, that's probably the direction I would go in.

Jazzman53 · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Dec 2012, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 29 Dec 2012, 08:44 pm

I'd personally cross that road when you come to it, as I think there will be more options in 6 months to a year then there are now. The landscape is moving quickly. Logitech themselves might have something up their sleeve. Lots of other folks are looking at building network attached options as well.

I am a SB user myself. I have a couple of the second gen and one touch. My DAC doesn't have USB input and I am not wanting to go that route yet.

Hopefully, you're right about Logitech having something up their sleeve. I can't see how it made marketing sense to just drop out of that segment of the market otherwise. As it stands, iff my SB Touch were to crap out today I would likely replace it with a Cambridge Audio NP30 at twice the price ($600).

JoshK · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Dec 2012, 06:40 pm »

I have zero knowledge of Sonos, but what about their $400 Connect, wouldn't that work similarly? I mean you have to change to their software, but that isn't the end of the world.

Delta Wave · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Dec 2012, 07:22 pm »

I just have my home PC plugged into a DAC in my main system and use the Apple Remote app to control Itunes. It works quite well. I also have a SB Duet in my second system.

Jazzman53 · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Dec 2012, 01:04 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 30 Dec 2012, 06:40 pm

I have zero knowledge of Sonos, but what about their $400 Connect, wouldn't that work similarly? I mean you have to change to their software, but that isn't the end of the world.

Thank you, yes, it looks like the Sonos Connect would be a reasonably priced alternative to the SB Touch, and I just saw one advertised for $350.

mdconnelly · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Dec 2012, 01:27 pm »

I do use my iPhone running the iPeng app as a player and it works fine. But if you're using your Touch with a good DAC, you'll need a way to get digital out from your iThingy. There's the Wadia dock but it's pricey. I have heard good things about the Pure i-20 but can be had for under $100.

Of course, all the above assumes that you still want to use LMS as the server.

I've got 2 SB Touch, 1 Duet and 1 SB 3 so I was quite disappointed in Logitech's decision, but I figure I'm fine for at least a couple years and who knows what will be on the market by then.

lcrim · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Dec 2012, 03:18 pm »

You can playback the music on the SqueezeBox Server (LMS) on other networked devices.
SqueezePlay is a free download available @
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=7.7
Which will allow playback of whatever music you have loaded on the LMS. It emulates the SqueezeBox playback wherever you can install it (different downloads for different OS).
There is also an Android version called SqueezePlayer @
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.bluegaspode.squeezeplayer
that can be purchased.
Some caveats at present:
HiRez playback is problemmatic (at least for me) at present. Internet Radio (not my passion) playback seems to work as well.
The Raspberry Pi is already working for some, functioning as a SqueezeBox substitute. A member here on this site has it running.
My point is that there already are cheap alternatives, if you think outside the box and are a bit adventurous.
Larry

John151 · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 12:51 am »

Did Logitech kill off the Squeezebox product line? I just checked the Logitech website, and no SB devices.

Jazzman53 · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 01:28 am »

Yup... both the SB Touch and Transporter are history.

steve in jersey · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 02:21 am »

Well, if you're ready to move up to something a bit more expensive ($799) you can get an Auraliti PK100 . I've been using one for about a year now & I don't even think about any disc player I've used (regardless of price or formats it will play) anymore. I honestly don't know if I "need" to venture much further into an actual "Computer Based" system as Auraliti seems to have done a very competent job with the hardware & included operating software choices they've made. Other than the USB music storage choices this "player" needs nothing else other than source material & a good external DAC (the internal DAC may be as good as a DAC in a $500 or $600 disc player, but the player is capable of a much higher standard w/ a higher quality DAC) to play music exceptionally well. With a few k$ of equipment after it you may be satisfied a for quite some time with the results. (This of course does'nt stop me from ignoring the upgrade bug as my system has been responding phenomenally well lately to them)

Hey it's only money (The old & single audiophile tells you, he he he)

richidoo · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 03:14 am »

I've had Sonos for 4 years and love it. I used to use SB3 and Duet. Sonos has internal library database, so it doesn't need a separate computer running. It is very reliable, scans library very fast. Multiple Sonoses stream in bit perfect sync for whole house audio party mode, and they have ethernet ports on the back to share their network to normal network clients. They have analog RCA inputs that can be shared to any or all other Sonos. Streams web radio, Pandora, etc. Sonos phone support is excellent. The only drawback is that the coaxial digital output has higher jitter than SB. It has an internal switch PS. So you need a DAC that can remove jitter. I use Twisted Pear Buffalo2 with Belleson regulators and Jensen's top nickel core output transformers, it is very tasty. I usually run the Sonos on my laptop with the excellent Sonos PC controller.

Another option is a dedicated PC for the stereo running JRiver, foobar or other music streaming software. That has some advantages in adding DSP to the signal but costs more.

sharpsuxx · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 06:35 am »

For $300s you can buy a pretty mean netbook, and then tweak to your hearts desire to improve features and sound quality. Plus it is a baby laptop...I run a little HP pulling its library from my main system's 2TB drive into an EE DAC, it is running Foobar2000 and I can remote control it from my Galaxy S3. I am somewhat saavy with computers, so I can change out the hard drive, strip down the OS and optimize it for music playback. It sounds great, haven't spun a disk in a while. If you don't feel like messing with that though, and you have all your music in iTunes, the Sonos is a very capable device with a great user interface if you have an iPad or tablet laying around.

Good luck!

totoro · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 06:45 am »

Quote from: richidoo on 2 Jan 2013, 03:14 am

I've had Sonos for 4 years and love it. I used to use SB3 and Duet. Sonos has internal library database, so it doesn't need a separate computer running. It is very reliable, scans library very fast. Multiple Sonoses stream in bit perfect sync for whole house audio party mode, and they have ethernet ports on the back to share their network to normal network clients. They have analog RCA inputs that can be shared to any or all other Sonos. Streams web radio, Pandora, etc. Sonos phone support is excellent. The only drawback is that the coaxial digital output has higher jitter than SB. It has an internal switch PS. So you need a DAC that can remove jitter. I use Twisted Pear Buffalo2 with Belleson regulators and Jensen's top nickel core output transformers, it is very tasty. I usually run the Sonos on my laptop with the excellent Sonos PC controller.

Another option is a dedicated PC for the stereo running JRiver, foobar or other music streaming software. That has some advantages in adding DSP to the signal but costs more.

Actually, there are a couple of other limitations

First, there is a 65000 song limit.
Second, it handles multiple tag values by choosing the first tag value it sees. This is really annoying if you do things like tagging one cd as baroque and lute as genres.

Sonospy is supposed to get around this. I tried fiddling with it a little, and gave up when I kept getting linking errors (or whatever you want to call them in python) saying some package that was included in the source didn't have function whatever().

Also, I like iPeng a lot better than the sonos ipad controller.

Oh, and a couple other smaller annoyance: sonos is _way_ slower at building an index for my collection (~4k cds, although I remove stuff so the sonos can build it at all for the play3 in my bedroom). A few minutes for squeezebox server to build an index on my linux box, and more like 45 minutes to an hour on the sonos. And you have to mount an ext3fs or less disk (or ntfs, and maybe whatever the name of the osx filesystem is) which is a bit annoying when most people on a linux box would use ext4fs or something fancier. And you have to mount the disk using samba (I hate samba, so I just hung an external drive off my wireless router).

The killers for me are the song limit (which sonos seems to have no plans to fix, from what I've seen on their forum) and the handling of multiple tag values.

When my sb touch goes, I'd probably choose raspberry pi over expanding sonos from my bedroom (where I have a play3) to my livingroom (where I currently have an sb touch).

If you have less than 65k tracks and are sure you will stay under that limit, and don't use multiple tag values, sonos is a pretty reasonable choice (it's what I've gotten my parents: remotely supporting squeezebox server seemed like too much hassle).

Otherwise, go elsewhere.

ratso · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 07:59 am »

i have been through a billion music servers and they all had drawbacks, shortcomings or drove me nuts. i finally got one that can handle any file formats, 24/192 and beyond, is quiet and cool running, looks great and costs around $500 bux. oh and you can also do any video on it, surf online, do your taxes on it, etc. its called a computer. get a mac mini.

jarcher · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 04:12 pm »

Quote from: ratso on 2 Jan 2013, 07:59 am

i have been through a billion music servers and they all had drawbacks, shortcomings or drove me nuts. i finally got one that can handle any file formats, 24/192 and beyond, is quiet and cool running, looks great and costs around $500 bux. oh and you can also do any video on it, surf online, do your taxes on it, etc. its called a computer. get a mac mini.

LOL - this is the conclusion I arrived at as well. There are so many limited purpose audio boxes out there competing for your attention and money when a mac mini will serve the same purpose and do more for less. And using a smart phone or tablet to control your preferred media management software, you have the same ease of use. Lastly, if you want to invest more to improve sound quality you can have them modified \ stripped down and / or put better power supplies. Yes, you have to use a stand alone DAC, but as this technology continues to improve - or your tastes change - it's better to not get stuck with something in an all in one unit.