[Rclark]

Hah. 

Well maybe when I finally get something hirez up and some good recorded audio (I know it's only an approximation of what I'm hearing) you might gain an appreciation for them. I love those things.

[jtwrace]

Hah. 

Well maybe when I finally get something hirez up and some good recorded audio (I know it's only an approximation of what I'm hearing) you might gain an appreciation for them. I love those things.

I've heard Maggies many times and have owned more than a few pairs of ML's in my time.  I'm good thanks.   

[Rclark]

ML's suck, and they're EL's not planars. But you have me intrigued.

[jtwrace]

they're EL's not planars.

Uh, yeah.  Still not for me but thanks anyway.  You've heard all ML's?     Also the Finals that I had?  Interesting.

[totoro]

I find this thread interesting because there are posters who have actually listened to multiple cd home speakers.

Have any of you tried the pi 3s or 4s?

jtwrace, I know you didn't want to be drawn too much on the audiokinesis vs gedlee comparison, but were the abbeys just better in every way?

I only ask this because the abbeys seem like the most expensive of the cd speakers that seem to be readily available (other than the big Danley's, I suppose, which I wouldn't have room or budget for anyway).

A pair of pi 4s with jbl woofers and b&c 250s is ~3200, hard to tell what Audiokinesis' next offerings will be in price (I'm interested to see what he does with the SEOS), but probably a fair amount less than 6000 (which is the current price for the abbeys).

[sts9fan]

I have the Nathan's and they are pretty awesome. I may buy and listen to other speakers but the GedLee will rotate in.

[James Romeyn]

Just be warned...there are a few companies that claim they use a WG and although they may function like one doesn't mean that they are a true WG that's giving all the benefit of one. 

Read the link above and all the Geddes and Toole papers.  After that, listen to them.  Then you may toss those MMG's.   

I've heard Maggies countless times.  Never was that impressed, never got the promised performance.   Best ever Maggie sound may have been 25 years ago at John Garland Audio in San Jose, loooooong gone now.  Oh, once pretty good at the Walnut Creek retailer.  Even the latest/greatest Maggie at CES this last January, big line out the door, for what I don't know...meh.   

Funny story about John Garland....he owed and refused to pay John Iverson a substantial chunk of change for amps, etc...I have huge hands (plus big feet, two outta three is hitting pretty good).  When John Iverson shook your hand it's an iron grip, he looks through you, never wavers his eyes, he says his name clearly, and it's an experience not soon forgotten with his Marine hair cut and all.  Iverson drives from Lake Havasu AZ to San Jose in T-shirt on vintage BMW R90S Beemer to say hello to John Garland.  24 hours later Iverson has money in hand.  Iverson was a character...very much miss him.

[James Romeyn]

Everyone who heard Ray Kimber's proprietary Iso-Mic DSD 4.0 recordings played back on Ray's premier system, step forward:

Eight Roger West Sound Lab full-height stats, two per corner
More Pass Labs amps than you can count
Master DSD playback same HD as recorded (IIRC)

Sadly, comparing the lesser system with four TAD Reference 1s, not in the ballpark, not even close. 

[James Romeyn]

ML's suck...

Up till about ten years ago I'd have agreed.  Now I'd say instead they seem more hit and miss. steadily improving...difficult to get ideal setup.  Their several sub-$1k/pr jobbies with AMT treble seem great for their price range. 

[James Romeyn]

I find this thread interesting because there are posters who have actually listened to multiple cd home speakers.

Have any of you tried the pi 3s or 4s?

jtwrace, I know you didn't want to be drawn too much on the audiokinesis vs gedlee comparison, but were the abbeys just better in every way?

I only ask this because the abbeys seem like the most expensive of the cd speakers that seem to be readily available (other than the big Danley's, I suppose, which I wouldn't have room or budget for anyway).

A pair of pi 4s with jbl woofers and b&c 250s is ~3200, hard to tell what Audiokinesis' next offerings will be in price (I'm interested to see what he does with the SEOS), but probably a fair amount less than 6000 (which is the current price for the abbeys).

Circa 2006 my tube-amp-building buddy in Santa Rosa bought three pi speakers for L/C/R for his brother in law's huge HT we built in Petaluma.  Never heard of pi before.  I was shocked how good they sounded.

Tell us please whatever you might know about Duke's latest plans...what is "SEOS" pray tell?  All I can remember him saying about 10 days ago was something about an old favorite waveguide now available again.     

[James Romeyn]

...Although I'll always keep these Maggies. They would look good just as knick knacks.

What, like office room dividers?...or for dining area in Japanese decorated home?   

[*Scotty*]

"SEOS" stands for (Super Elliptical Oblate Spheroid) horn.

See link below
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/fiberglass-seos/seos8.html
Scotty

[Rclark]

If I'm not mistaken, Mike Galusha is building a set of those, I think?

[jtwrace]

Have any of you tried the pi 3s or 4s?

I haven't and will hear these....I've even thought about building a pair for giggles.  Then again, the data tells me everything.

jtwrace, I know you didn't want to be drawn too much on the audiokinesis vs gedlee comparison, but were the abbeys just better in every way?

That's correct, not something that I want to get into but yes to my ears.

[JoshK]

"SEOS" stands for (Super Elliptical Oblate Spheroid) horn.

See link below
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/fiberglass-seos/seos8.html
Scotty

A tiny bit of background on these waveguides, as I had something to do with it.  There were some really good waveguides made by QSC that provided a cheap/economic and great measuring solution for waveguides to make your own CD type speaker, ala Geddes, Pi, etc.   There was a huge thread about whether the vertical lobe mattered (shorter waveguide vertically then horizontally ala Pi and vs. Geddes).

There was a dude that went by Zilch that did a lot of measuring, experimentation, building of various speakers and got a huge grass roots movement (econowave speakers) going for trying it out yourself inexpensively.  However, QSC pulled the rug out of our fun and quit supplying the WG to DIYers.   We tried to get Parts-express to supply them and that didn't really go too well.   In the mean time some of us decided why not create our own design from scratch the way we want it.

I was participating in the thread and we were throwing out some ideas for an elliptical OS profile.  (The OS part is important, read Geddes).  I theorized that a super elliptical mouth profile would hit more of our goals and at the very least would do no harm.   So they got made and the measurements seemed to confirm my theory.   That was my minor contribution, other than writing up the mathematics for a trademark application.

I wouldn't argue the WG is better than another (ok maybe some), I would say it was a great solution to what we wanted to design. 

[JoshK]

The huge thread where the SEOS waveguide gets created, plus lots of designs get created for speaker projects with the SEOS.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here

ErichH took Zilch's (passed away) movement and ran with it in a HUGE way, ordering waveguide, cnc'd boxes, horns, compression drivers, kits and stuff without taking any money for profit.   Without ErichH, this wouldn't exist.  Erich created a website to order kits and stuff and his forum has a bit more organized display of what speakers there have been designed so far around them.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/

The other big long threads with the debate about the vertical null which motivated Zilch's direction were on diyaudio and somewhat on audiokharma too (where the econowave speakers started) I think. 

[JoshK]

If I'm not mistaken, Mike Galusha is building a set of those, I think?

Mike has/had a pair of Abbeys kits, which are now replaced by Beyma TPL-150H + JBL 2226H speakers. 

[mgalusha]

Mike has/had a pair of Abbeys kits, which are now replaced by Beyma TPL-150H + JBL 2226H speakers.

He also has a pair of the SEOS and DE-250 compression drivers and perhaps when it's warm again will build yet another set of speakers.

There is a second pair of jbl 2226h drivers but one has a voice coil rub, so must be either repaired or replaced.

mike

[richidoo]

Josh put the Super in the SEOS! 

I played with the SEOS12 for a few months, using TD12X, 2512, 2206, DE250, PB375 and quality passive crossover parts, and active crossover. I enjoyed the SPL, the vertical dispersion control, but none of these woofers could play clean enough for me up that high, and the treble was a bit colored too. Back to direct radiators for me, at least for now. My friend hometheaterdoc is still exploring the concept with super high end parts quality, so I look forward to hearing what he does.

[JoshK]

I understand if someone doesn't like the CD sound.  Its a tiny bit different sounding to my ears, but I don't much care for most dome tweeters especially when the volume goes up.

FYI, just came across another source of waveguides for dome tweeters if anyone is interested (I'm not, but someone might be).
http://www.pellegreneacoustics.com/waveguides.htm
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?234279-Some-New-Guides-quot-Pic-quot&highlight=pellegrene

FYI, if you wanted to play cleanly up high, you should have used the TD12M which is a midrange, the TD12X is a midbass speaker and has a surround resonance at between 500-600hz which shows up in the measurements.  I haven't tried the 2512 or the 2206.