[James Romeyn]

I don't sell anything below.  I only heard one of the speakers recommended below, Revel's brand new Performa3 M106 just released last week.  I consider all floor standing speakers (regardless of cost/complexity) far out classed (yes, even the $90k Magico) by the vertical dipole I invented employing two stand mount speakers (instructions posted here at this forum), and Distributed Bass Arrays and all their unique associated benefits.  Hence all three speakers mentioned below are stand mounts.

They share in common tweeter waveguides, also preferred by my friend Duke LeJeune.  Wave guides closely match the radiation pattern between drivers in the crossover range.  Wave guides done right offer a certain performance advantage not available otherwise.  Waveguides seem to have hit a major bump in popularity lately.

Performa3 shares nothing in common with the old Performa line.  The M106 in a back room at Harman's 2012 CES display, powered by $10k Levinson amp, was absolutely smashing, and to me anyway, beat the larger floorstander in the outer room, by considerable margin.  I dig good stand mounts.   

The point is, at their respective prices, and considering 6moons full reveiws of the all-new Sonus faber "Venere" series model 1.5 and floor standing 2.5, me thinks thou makes major error disregarding these new speakers up to about 2-3x their respective msrp.  Best I can tell only two caveats: low power amps need not apply, pretend you didn't just waste 45 seconds reading this if you disfavor Chinese made goods.

Sonus faber, Italy, Sumiko, Berkeley CA

New Venere (ve-NEH-ree?) model 1.5 stand mount only $1200/pr msrp, made in China, black or white piano lacquer, no parallel walls, waveguide tweeter, 6M rave for 1.5 and 2.5 floor stander only $2500/pr!

http://sumikoaudio.net/sonus/prod_venere_15.htm#spec
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sonusfaber3/1.html   

Revel USA, Kevin Voecks, Harman International
Performa3 Series waveguide tweeter
Performa3 M1105, M106 owner manual: http://www.revelspeakers.com/Products/Details/225
“...These beautiful, modern enclosures are finished in high-gloss piano black, high-gloss piano white or genuine American walnut in a process (developed and overseen by Italian luxury cabinet makers) that exceeds automotive finish quality...”
 
M105 $1500/pr, January 2012 price was $1200, thank Ben Bernanke for price hike

http://www.revelspeakers.com/Products/Details/226
http://www.revelspeakers.com/News/Story/80


M106 $2000/pr, January 2012 price was $1750, again, thank Ben for the price hike:

http://www.revelspeakers.com/Products/Details/225




Which cosmetics do you favor, Venere or Performa3?

Just for reference, my favorite all-time stand mount is Dr. Karl Schuemann's glorious-sounding $8k/pr AudioMachina CRM, first heard 2012 CES powered by ModWright DAC-preamp combo and SE stereo amp, absolutely fantastic sounding, speaker enclosures cut from one piece solid aluminum.  If I win the lotto six of these are soon in my sound room.     

[sts9fan]

I demo'd the Sonus Faber last Saturday. I think I am going buy a pair if the 2.5.
They sounded very nice.

[roscoeiii]

I have loved my SP Tech Minis, which have a much deeper wave guide. Crossover in these 2-ways is 800Hz!!!

They do need power though...

...on the other hand, they are beauties to look at.

[jtwrace]

I demo'd the Sonus Faber last Saturday. I think I am going buy a pair if the 2.5.
They sounded very nice.

These?

http://www.sonusfaber.com/venere/en/2punto5/index.html

[James Romeyn]

Sumiko just told me it's VEH-ne-ree (VEH like venerate)

If possible, briefly setup two Venere 1.5 in my vertical dipole array before buying the 2.5 floor model.  I can see one problem is 1.5 can't balance on it's too narrow back...hmmmm....sorry the only known solution is to make a brace/bracket.  Anyway, two 1.5 setup as recommended ($100 less msrp) should overall beat the 2.5 even though the 2.5 likely goes slightly deeper and has more bass punch. 

Add four small "blowout" subs (estimate $150ea) later per my latest "Progressive Null Point" instructions.  Should kill practically any floor stander I can think of.  Only problem is you must active high-pass cross the mains to work with the sub.  Behringer's superb DCX-2496 is only $250 ea street price. 

Yes, it's more hard ware, but you guys gotta try the vertical dipole.  It blows away any bipole, horizontal dipole, or omni-pole...of course mono poles are so, well, mono. 

One thing comes to mind.  It's possible, though I don't know, that the vertical dipole might work less good with super wide dispersion mono poles like the speakers mentioned above. 

What about cosmetics, Venere vs. Performa3? 

Same German 6M reviewer went ape over both Venere models including the 2.5, the only floor stander released yet.  He described with typical German accuracy, exactly what I hear and love in proper wave guide designs.  Duke's waveguide had little to no trace of what I normally easily detect re. inverted-polarity tweeter. 

Strangely, the brand new KEF LS50 also has 99% absolute raves.  I do love three earlier KEF models but the LS50 did absolutely nothing for me, strange...strange too that KEF inverted the mid bass not the tweeter....this makes absolutely no sense...never seen this ever in a 2-way and believe me I notice such details when I read specs.  The only known reason I can imagine is KEF wanted the tweeter in phase with a sub in the case of owners who added a sub, rather than the mid bass in-phase.   

That Nucore version of the SPTech is just so insanely good looking.     

The vertical dipole works for the same reason my ex and current neighbor Dave Wilson's rear firing tweeter fires at 45-degree diagonal angle back toward the front wall/ceiling intersection, rather than vertical or horizontal: to lengthen the delay time per Toole's research and recommendations...the rear corner/ceiling intersection is farthest from the listener.   



 

[sts9fan]

Yes the 2.5.
Lets be honest though. These waveguides are not doing nearly as much as a Geddes or other larger horn.

[jtwrace]

Lets be honest though. These waveguides are not doing nearly as much as a Geddes or other larger horn.

Of course not but still interesting. 

[JoshK]

I guess it boils down to whether you believe in CD or not.   I do.  So I lean to CD to the lowes freq possible.....

[jtwrace]

I do. 

Just so there is no confusion, me too.   

[ricardojoa]

The waveguide on the revel doesnt seem all that deep and i wonder how much good they are doing. I have a pair of bookshelve with built in waveguide tweeter. Im not sure if can tell the benifit from it.

[James Romeyn]

The waveguide on the revel doesnt seem all that deep and i wonder how much good they are doing. I have a pair of bookshelve with built in waveguide tweeter. Im not sure if can tell the benifit from it.

Kevin Voeck's designs (Revel) have been compared to others costing multiples more for a few decades now.  To be honest, I have to admit I never remember being that impressed with Revel prior but then again that doesn't mean so much because I rarely heard them or paid much attention to them.

The all-new Performa3 M106 powered by $10k Levinson stereo amp was absolutely kick butt good at 2012 CES.  I know well the difference between good and exceptional spatial effects, and density (aka sound intensity).  Among other CDs I played a Frank Vignola CD with Frank playing a Thorell guitar built 10 minutes from my home...I know the tone well in first person, played one of Frank's personal flat tops (he wore out the frets in about 10 mos...any guitarists here ever do that?)

An industry person most highly qualified for such opinion said he was shocked how close the new Performa3 plays to the much longer of tooth Ultima Line.  I really think, with proper Asian manufacturing, the ultra high end is almost exclusive for mine's bigger than yours crowd.  I helped a friend build a great HT for his brother in law, a PGE executive, before I moved from CA.  His brother in law told him, get me the biggest screen possible, it's gotta be bigger than anything my neighbors have.       

It's really sad that there's no way I can possibly imagine anything built in the USA could touch the M106 for even full $2k msrp.  Not saying it could not happen, but I'd bet money right now, no.   

Revel tech said yesterday he's not positive if all new Performa3 line have in-phase drivers only, but typically they only invert drivers not forward firing.  Interesting the Revel are all-aluminum diaphragms, all Venere all use exact same soft dome.

Anyone hear the all new $1500/pr KEF LS50?  Surprised how unimpressed I was considering many raves including John Atkinson's Class A rating.   

[JoshK]

Quick perspective....the OP links speakers that don't have my CD control, however, it might be enough to avoid the BBC dip and also helps time align the drivers.   So its a natural element to add into a hi-fi speaker even without other considerations.   Glad the mass producers/hi-fi shop manufacturers are taking notice of the research that has come out.

[James Romeyn]

Link to CD control, please!

 

[JoshK]

link is tough, cause constant directivity, or controlled directivity is a long time concept.  Its used throughout audio, in studios, in stadiums, in hi-fi (less so, but still). 

Dr. Geddes probably made it best known to me.  From there I read up on the subject over time. 

[jtwrace]

Link to CD control, please!

 

http://gedlee.com/downloads/directivity.pdf

[James Romeyn]

Good read from Geddes, thanks.  I saw no date on the paper. 

An acoustics expert mentioned Procella below.  They look perfect for my application with Distributed Subs < 80 Hz. 

I'm suspicious that the perfect speaker for my vertical dipole array has narrow than average radiation pattern.  Reason being that the 2nd speaker supplies ambiance and spatial effects, not the main forward monitor.  Now that three 500W Ncore are in the house, I know when I hit the dynamic ceiling it's the speakers, not the amp.  Even active high-pass crossed @ 80 Hz, I could use more dynamic range than a total of six (2 each per 3 Trinaural chs) Dynaudio Esotec mid bass and Esotec soft domes in vertical dipole array.  VDA sensitivity is about 1.5 dB lower than all drivers forward-firing, but big return in density and unprecedented spatial effects.         

Procella, Sweden (L.A. dist.)
P6V $3200 70 Hz, waveguide, compression tweeter 90 dB, 100/300W, 110/116 dB

http://www.procella.citymax.com/loudspeakers.html#P6V
http://www.procella.citymax.com/f/P6V_Tech_Sheet_v1.1.pdf

[Telstar]

Venere spells VEH-NEH-REH, as italian reads like is written no matter where is the "e".

The cabinet was designed by an old friend of mine and looks good IMO, he always liked curved lines and in speakers they make most sense.
I haven't heard them, but it's a good move from SF to offer something in this pricerange.

[James Romeyn]

Venere spells VEH-NEH-REH, as italian reads like is written no matter where is the "e".

The cabinet was designed by an old friend of mine and looks good IMO, he always liked curved lines and in speakers they make most sense.
I haven't heard them, but it's a good move from SF to offer something in this pricerange.

You'll have to call USA importer Sumiko and correct the lady who answered the phone!

Considering the apparent beauty of the cabinet in images, and the technology advertised, I really had to double check the advertised price was pairs rather than each.  I can't decide which cosmetic I like better between the Venere and Performa3 (both excellent), but my wife preferred Performa3. 

[JLM]

Amphion is another waveguide vendor, but most of their models are small two-ways.

[James Romeyn]

After looking closely at Geddes' designs (again), his wave guide shape still seems unique.  The closest I've heard to Geddes' is AudioKinesis, who makes some of the best speakers I've heard (Geddes and LeJeune worked together).  I can only surmise both their designs share unique, specific, high performance attributes.

Geddes' and AK designs share classic-sized mid bass (12"-15") + similar diameter wave guided compression drivers, resulting in much wider enclosures than high-end styling trend.  The high-end has almost "universal" faith in the creed that the best spatial effects require the narrowest enclosures...combined with styling trends promoting thinner is more attractive. 

Personally I lean heavily now toward the Geddes/AK camp, and am looking forward to hearing AKs latest offerings at the earliest opportunity.  I suspect I'm not the only member here who elevates function well above cosmetic appeal.     

 Lipinski's L-505 also caught my eye lately, but certainly Lipinski's "normal" ring radiator tweeter would severely limit dynamics vs. a wave guided compression driver, especially with a slow crossover slope as Lipinski advertises.  The L-505's dual symmetrical mid bass improves focus and dynamics below the treble, but this does nothing to improve treble dynamic range.  Funny that they market it as a studio monitor, considering the dynamic range studios normally require.