[usp1]

I have a local guy willing to sell me two Sl-1210 MK 2 for $850. They are in very nice condition but the cartridge is the Shure SC35C (pretty low end). I heard them in his garage and was underwhelmed, to say the least. But that might not be the fault of the TT itslef. The rest of the electronics and speakers were  "pro" stuff and theI am sure all that equipment sitting in a cold garage did not help matters.

Maybe with work and with better equipment they might sound quite nice...but I did not want to put down $850 for two of these and then have to try selling one or both later.

[Russtafarian]

For years I'd been frustrated with the speed anomalies of the second hand VPI table I was listening to.  I didn't get the SDS box because I found VPI's attitude towards the issue disingenuous.  "Oh, you want speed control and pitch stability from your turntable? That'll be an extra $1,200 please..."

So last year I picked up a SL1200 MkII on Ebay with an armboard but no arm for $300.  I mounted my older Graham arm (from the VPI), moved the power transformer to a separate box, installed a better motor controller regular, and added a Funk Acromat.  I am really enjoying my records for an outlay of less than $500 and some DIY work.  It's not as quiet as the VPI, and doesn't throw as big a soundstage.  But tonally it's very clean sounding with tight bass and nice articulation through the mids and highs.  And pitch stability is rock-solid.  The limitation I do hear is low-low-low level bearing noise, so I'm looking into an upgrading the bearing.  I may still go back to the VPI if I can fine a reasonably priced speed controller solution.  But for now I'm digging my SL1200.

Russ

My AC post on updating the SL1200: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106045.msg1086589#msg1086589

[TONEPUB]

It's not really a "oh you want speed accuracy" that's 1200 bucks" it's more of an upgrade.  An M series BMW sells for more than the standard car.

However, talk to Dave Cawley at sound hifi in the UK if you'd like a better bearing for your 1200.  He's got a great option for you.  Thinking about
doing it myself!

[LM]

Usp1,

It seems to me after looking through this thread that your original post was looking to establish whether a $300/400 stock SL1200 buy would most likely be a good result (audiophile?) for you or bad (DJ/overhyped).  The problem is, your taste and equipment experience may vary from me (and others here) and your room and other gear are bound to be quite different so hard to advise correctly.  Nor will $400 or so likely buy perfection up front unless you jag a very lucky bargain and so I suspect that there is some risk of dissatisfaction whichever way you go.  In the end, you may well need a future replacement or upgrade if/when you want better sound.

Like Russtafarian, I have gone the Techy way though in my case with the original (though rewired + KAB damper) arm and New bearing.  I found the bearing and rewire transformed the TT. Thing is though, the stock deck though not perfect, still sounded fine for the price.  Yes a bit dark and I would add ‘thin or tinny’ with the original arm wire but acceptable (to me) short term.  Plodding – never found this. Its biggest fault to my ears was that the sound stage was rather flat or 2D but the precision and timing of the TT were always fantastic for a stock item.

[usp1]

Thanks LM. I would take the plunge at around $300 but it is unlikely that I will have the time to do the kind of DIY improvements that some of the others have done. So I will very likely have to look for something else if the stock TT does not sound good or look for someone to do the mods for me.

I don't see the point in getting two turntables for 850...I might as well look for something nicer afterwards.

[LM]

I would take the plunge at around $300 but it is unlikely that I will have the time to do the kind of DIY improvements that some of the others have done.

Understood but (cost aside) bearing, feet and mat take seconds/minutes to do.  Sure an arm rewire and bearing may not be cost effective/feasible for you but I also got huge improvements by attending to the basics such as a rock solid shelf. removing the dust cover whilst playing, correct alignment, levelling the TT and of course a good cartridge/stylus.    Of course these attention to detail type adjustments apply to all TT types, not just the Techy so I'm not trying to push you in that direction though I am convinced that its a solid starting base particularly re timing at that price point where nothing will be perfect.  Best of luck whatever way you go.

[TONEPUB]

While many like to argue Technics vs. Rega vs. whatever at the 4-600 price range, they are all pretty good.  If the two SL-1200s are in excellent shape, you might even get $600 for one of them on Ebay.  Now discontinued, clean ones are fetching a pretty healthy price on the used market..

Just a thought.

[jsawyer09]

I really like the 1200 with an external power supply and better tonearm.  It's definitely worthy of the SME, Rega and Funk Firm arms I've attached to mine.

For what it's worth, here are a couple of threads I recently posted on AA...it might give some perspective of what a pretty modified Technics SL-1210 can accomplish. Not many over there seemed interested, but AudioCircle seems to have more fans and appreciation of this 'table. I also tend to agree that it is definitely worthy of a world-class arm, cart, and anything else you're willing to do.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=1035233

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=1035400

[usp1]

 How much more would be required to take this table to an acceptable level? From what I am reading, I need a new arm and cartridge, a new bearing, isolation feet and a new mat. Let's say best case situation - I can get the 2 tables for 850 and flip one for par value, I will have 425 in the table. Will I need to spend another 5-600 or are we talking another $1000. Around  $1000 I can look at a used Clearaudio or Marantz TT-15 or VPI would this be better than those tables? Of course, I know with spending even more I could take those TT up several notches (the slippery slope).

Also, I have to figure out how best to pack one of these things so I can ship without damage.

Thanks for all the help.

[jsawyer09]

How much more would be required to take this table to an acceptable level? From what I am reading, I need a new arm and cartridge, a new bearing, isolation feet and a new mat. Let's say best case situation - I can get the 2 tables for 850 and flip one for par value, I will have 425 in the table. Will I need to spend another 5-600 or are we talking another $1000. Around  $1000 I can look at a used Clearaudio or Marantz TT-15 or VPI would this be better than those tables? Of course, I know with spending even more I could take those TT up several notches (the slippery slope).

Also, I have to figure out how best to pack one of these things so I can ship without damage.

Thanks for all the help.

Hello again.
I don't know if you really ever need to go as far as I or TONEPUB did (obvious extreme cases). My understanding is you can really achieve huge sonic improvements with just a few of the KAB mods (tonearm re-wire, fluid damper; maybe Isonoe footers) and a decent cart for very little money, and still compete favorably, IMO, with the above 'tables you've mentioned, and possibly even outperform them. I've only listened to the Marantz; the only VPIs and Clearaudios I've heard were well over the $1000 mark. Much of this depends on priorities and what you're trying to accomplish, coupled with whether or not you like the overall sound of DD versus belt drive. All I know is that the SL series 'tables are worth exploring, no matter what iteration of mods you intend on trying.

[trackball02]

Anyone have personal experience in wrapping the tonearm with teflon tape?

[TONEPUB]

I'd consider just getting a half way decent cartridge like an AT 440, Shure M97, etc, and play some records.  See what you think.
You might be just fine right there.

Then at least you'll have a good baseline for the sound, if you decide to go down the upgrade path.

[jneutron]

Kinda don't think there are a lot of audiophiles looking to DJ with their tables here though...

I know.  It just struck me odd that the 1200's would be considered for home use..  I always thought of them as industrial platforms..

jn

[AllynW]

I purchased a Technics SL-1210MKII off E-Bay a few years back.  After using a Project Debut with its given price point limitations.  The 1210’s weight and overall construction built was a pleasure.  With the Debut I learned I wanted a tone arm with a removal headshell so I could change out cartridges fast and easy.  The techy fit the bill. I  had heard all the “dark sounding” comments and found it really depended on the cartridge and phono pre-amp one uses.  After a year, for compliance reasons, I changed out the arm to a Jelco SA-750.  The entire process required no real technical skills, only money, a computer for a few hours of research, a YouTube 12xx disassembly video and 2 hours of work with a philips screwdriver.  No matter how well it performs, the thing is down right UGLY and has no audiophile visual appeal.  I have about $800.00  into it and I’m a happy camper.  BTW:  A good phono pre-amp is just as important as a cartridge and TT, maybe more! 

The following are the fact on the 1200 line:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200

[Miney]

Here is list of interesting links I stumbled upon while looking for reasons to / not buy a 1200.   http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/1200rvw1.htm

I now own one and enjoy it immensely (except for looks).  To be fair, I have yet to perform any direct comparisons to other contemporary offerings in the ~1k price range.