Mapletree and 6sn7 tubes

marjrho · « **on:** 10 Dec 2012, 10:15 pm »

I see that he Mapletree gives you the option of using this 6sn7. In some literature for a different preamp, this partcular tube was used because of its tone. How do you Mapletree owners who use the 6sn7 like it in comparision to the other tube options? Further, which brand of 6sn7 are you using?

Thanks

gcos · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 11:03 pm »

I believe that it is generally agreed that the best sn7 for the Mapletree preamps is the 12sx7s. Fortunately Antique Electronic Supply have a special on nos 12sx7 for$13.65! That is a steal as they are hard to find and are usually around 30 bucks. I got me two pairs ... RCA and GE.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 11:34 pm »

The 12SN7 and the 6SN7 are the same tube except for the filament voltage. If you have two of the same brand/vintage they should sound exactly the same so long as their respective filament voltages are correct. The designer of the Mapletree pre uses the 12SN7 just b/c they are cheaper than NOS 6SN7s.

JohnR · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 11:42 pm »

Quote from: gcos on 10 Dec 2012, 11:03 pm

I believe that it is generally agreed that the best sn7 for the Mapletree preamps is the 12sx7s. Fortunately Antique Electronic Supply have a special on nos 12sx7 for$13.65! That is a steal as they are hard to find and are usually around 30 bucks. I got me two pairs ... RCA and GE.

How did you get them to send two different brands?

rotarius · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Dec 2012, 12:32 am »

I have owned the mapletree 2A and used it with 12sn7 and 6sn7 tubes. I have also had several 6sn7 based preamps so ended up with quite a few. The advantage of 6sn7 is you can get new production tubes and you have a vast selection of NOS tubes to choose from. Within the same brand, some versions are better than others and it also depends on your taste. RCA GT or GTB have a bloomy midrange but less bass extension. Sylvania GT or GTAare nice, airy highs. For best tonal balance and frequency extension, CBS or hytron 6sn7gt Current production Shuguangs are quite nice too. PM me if you need more info.

gcos · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Dec 2012, 01:11 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 10 Dec 2012, 11:42 pm

How did you get them to send two different brands?

I emailed and requested specific brands.
Dr. P also has a preference for the sx7.
I had the Black Treasures in for a while but switched back to GE 12sx7 which I found to be vastly superior to BT.

marjrho · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Dec 2012, 01:13 am »

Thanks for the responses, this is great info. There is a method to my madness, which I will explain. My speakers are the Nola Viper iia's, and just the other day I read an article where the Nola's were matched up in a system that included the Dehavilland Ultraverve preamp. The sound that was described with this match has put me in overdrive with a tube preamp search.

After researching the Ultraverve, I found that Kara likes the 6sn7 for her preamps because of its tone. So I figured that I would look into some tube preamps that use this tube. As a result of my brief search, I discovered that Mapletree, Modwright ls100, and the Rogue 99 Magnum all use the 6sn7 tube. I'm sure all of these makes have their own sonic signature, but am I wrong to assume that they would share some sonic characteristics due to the common 6sn7 tube? This puts me in a bit of a fix, because I was just about to pull the trigger on the Doge 8 until I read about this tube. I would appreciate any further guidance on this topic, as I am getting in to tubes for the very first time.

ProCast99 · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Dec 2012, 04:45 am »

Hi Marjrho:

Welcome to the wonderful world of tubes!

I may catch some flak for this, but as I understand it, the advantage of the 6SN7 family of tubes is that it gives a flatter overall frequency response than other small pre-amp tubes (e.g. AU, AX 's) - and yes, there are a lot of choices out there.

I currently am enjoying some 1960s Tung Sols in mine - I've tried RCAs, Sylvanias, some 7AF7s with adaptors, and 12SX7s. Each tube type brings its own "flavour" to the system. For example, since I changed speakers, my tube preference has changed (from tubes that had a "brighter" tone, like my 12SX7s, to more "meaty" tubes, as my new speakers are high eff and quite revealing) - so you want to consider that too - what kind of speakers are you using - are they "darker", brighter?etc. .. (i have no experience with your Vipers..).

I had a really good experiences both with the Black Treasure and some grey glass RCA's in this system.

good luck, also do not get too hung up on the exact tubes. The good Dr. P doesn't - most decent tubes will give a really good result.
Although, having said that, the "right" tube in the signal path can make a great difference - but it will be trial and error to find the exact "right" one for your system, room and ears!

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Dec 2012, 06:12 pm »

Hi Marjrho,

I have the Rogue 99 and love it! For about 15 years, I had been using 2 different 6DJ8 based preamps, both of which are considered classics. They sounded great but were a little veiled and the vocals in the mix were always too far back (imaging wise). I just thought that was 'my sound' and lived with it. Many other components and speakers came in and out of my room but nothing changed those two faults. Then a buddy of mine bought a Rogue Metis pre (also using the 6SN7) and I had it in my system for a few days. All those issues were gone. The sound was crystal clear but still with good body and the vocals were prominent in the mix, right where they should be. I sold both my preamps and bought the 99. I can't say the differences between the 3 are solely due to the different tubes, it would be crazy to claim that. But I've been very impressed with the sound I've gotten from the 99. And the fact that many manufacturers on jumping on the 6SN7 bandwagon should speak volumes.

If you get the Mapletree, stick with the 12v versions as they are far, far cheaper than the 6v brethren. BTW, my favorite *SN7 is the NOS Tung-Sol, I think from the 50s, but I haven't tried them all.

marjrho · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Dec 2012, 08:59 pm »

Thanks Ericus, I haven't heard the 99, but I have the heard the Metis and I was quite impressed, so if all the preamps I am considering offer that same "flavor" of sound, then I'm even more interested in grabbing one of them. The only problem is waiting for them to pop up used. There are a couple of LS100 out there as of this writing, but they are a little more than I want to spend. I will try to be patient, but its hard because I have no music right now, as I have sold my other preamps to make this purchase happen. The Mapletree is tempting, but I really prefer having a remote, but we will see.

rockadanny · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 12:04 am »

Quote

I believe that it is generally agreed that the best sn7 for the Mapletree preamps is the 12sx7s

IMO, not necessarily. As usual, it depends. I enjoyed the 12SX7 when I had a hybrid power amp. Though I preferred NOS 6SN7 Sylvanias (from the 50's, but do not recall exact model) for better drive and rhythm over the 12SX7. That is, until I switched my power amp to all-tube SET. Then preferred the NOS 12SN7 Tung-Sol for better clarity, while retaining excellent drive and rhythm.

This is the great thing about a flexible preamp like the Mapletree - 6 or 12! You pick! Awesome! And the 12SN7 Tung-Sol were cheaper than the 6SN7, yet I prefer them the most in my current configuration.

Warning to fellow boneheads: when swapping 12SN7s in to replace 6SN7s, don't forget to flip the switch from 6SN7 to 12SN7 like I did once!

And vice-versa as well, of course. Pay attention!

marjrho · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 03:47 pm »

Rockadanny, are you using the Mapletree with a tube or SS power amp?

jsm71 · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 04:05 pm »

I'm not sure what your price range is for a preamp, but I have enjoyed my Cary SLP-98P for two years now. It uses 6SN7GT tubes shipped with tubes from Electo Harmonix. I haven't tried other tubes as I am very content with how it sounds. This preamp comes with or without the phono front end. I got the phono version and love it. This was my first tube buy as well and I bought based on the reputation of the 6SN7 sound and the legacy of this model. That plus I just thought the unit looked way cool in red.

rockadanny · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 05:38 pm »

Tube power amp (mono-blocks) ...

Mapletree 2A/SE Linestage Preamp:

Audio Mirror 45 Watt SET Mono-block Power Amps:

Goosepond · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 06:40 pm »

rockadanny,

Just have to say those monoblocks are gorgeous. Which made me do a search for their website and I see they also make a beautiful tube pre to go with them.

So why did you go with the Mapletree?

Thanks,

Gene

rockadanny · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 07:23 pm »

Thanks Gene. IMO they sound as good as they look.

(They've recently been enhanced by Vlad: auto-bias and circuit protection - highly recommended enhancement.)

A Dick Olscher (TAS) review of the Ultraverve preamp ( http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/DickOlsherUltraVReview%20.htm ) got me interested in pursuing an octal tube-based (6SN7) preamp. I considered three:
1. Ultraverve (too expensive for me at the time);
2. Wright Sound 12 somethingorother;
3. Mapletree 2A/SE.

All of which I suspected sounded good. Tried the Mapletree first because: inexpensive; 30-day return policy; Mapletree circle here on AC; impressive reviews; separate power supply; point-to-point wiring; custom gains per input; 6SN7 or 12SN7 tube flexibility; excellent advice and service from Dr. Peppard. Once I fired it up I was impressed with its accurate tone and harmonics. Had an inexpensive integrated amp before that, but it took the Mapletree to make a saxophone sound like a reed instrument. I liked it so much I kept it, and it is still in my system. Even though its pedigree might not seem up to par with the rest of my gear, I don't have any desire to replace it. IMO, it is that good.

marjrho · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Dec 2012, 01:18 am »

Those monoblocks are gorgeous! Thanks for the pics. JSM, thanks for the info on the Cary, but I'm looking for used and I'm not sure if the Cary can be ha for $1,500 or less.

JoshK · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Dec 2012, 01:24 am »

I owned a mapletree 6sn7 preamp way early on and beat out my Cary SLP-2002 by a good margin and many other preamps to come thereafter. Probably one of those components I should have held onto.

I am very intrigued by the Mercury preamp from Dehavilland....kinda pricey though for a preamp by my standards.

SteveFord · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Dec 2012, 01:57 am »

I want to hear the Mercury, too.
The limited reviews say better midrange, less bass than the UltraVerve3 which sounds really good to me.
Not this year but next year...

marjrho · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Dec 2012, 09:56 pm »

Josh, what other pre's did you compare to the Mapletree?

Regarding Dehavilland, a review of the Ultraverve is what has put me on this 6sn7 quest. The Ultraverve 3 is a little on the rich side for me right now, although I could stretch the budget if I found that I had to have it. I just learned from the same dealer that the Ultraverve Jr. has been fazed out. So, if I can get some more info on sound characteristics from the likes of the Rogue amps, 99, Persues and Metis Magnums (all 6sn7) compared to the Mapletree, I will have a better sense of how I'm going to move.