Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos

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avalon65

Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« on: 18 Jun 2004, 03:23 pm »
I'm considering adding this pre to my Stratos/Groneberg/Nightingales set-up. It has all the features I want, just the right amount of inputs/outputs, remote, ascetics, size, passive/active modes, good reviews and reasonably priced. I think what got me most interested in the piece is the active/passive modes. I recently A/B a Creek passive against my Anthem TLP1 and was amazed how much cleaner the sound was. I'd keep the Creek, but it doesn't have enough inputs. From the reading I've done, it sounds like the 750 will soon be (if not already) considered a classic. My source is a Cambridge 500se. Now synergistically speaking, how will it mix with the rest of my Odyssey gear?

I'm not an EE so have little understanding of matching input/output impedance. I figure if I could match the specs of the Tempest than at least electronically they would be a good fit. Unfortunately I cannot interpolate the output impedance of the Tempest. The 750 has an output impedance of <600 Ohms. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help!

KarlDL

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Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #1 on: 19 Jun 2004, 08:39 pm »
Please excuse me for the following geek-speak.  If someone posts with direct experience, don't bother reading further.  If not, here goes:

Output impedance specs are problematical.  Some manufacturers quote the "source" impedance, others spec the minimum "load" impedance.  A good rule-of-thumb is that the latter is typically one-tenth the former in modern, "voltage-matched" systems.  So a SS preamp rated at 600 Ohms output (source) will usually be quite happy with a power amp input at or above 6K Ohms, which the Stratos is (10K).  And, should the Adcom spec be a "load" one, that means 600 or greater, so there's even less of a "matching" issue.

But Adcom's (web site) specs don't distinguish between the "active" and "passive" modes.  And I would certainly expect the "source" impedance to be well above 600 Ohms in the "passive" mode, as it must be to maintain the stated Adcom input impedances without causing substantial losses.  What does that mean for interface with the Stratos?  Perhaps little - read on.

Should the Adcom "passive" output impedance be well above 600 Ohms, that's not likely to present any serious issues if you typically run the volume control below 2 o'clock or so.  The loading that the Stratos input places upon the Adcom will, at such rotation and below, mostly cause some variation in volume change versus control rotation characteristic, with respect to the "active" behavior of the same preamp.  So what!  If it sounds better that way, who cares?  If you must run the control above 2 o'clock, then more of the Stratos load may reflect back into your source equipment.  This shouldn't be an issue for most SS source gear, but it could be for some tube stuff.

One old "trick" in volume control design is to use a low-impedance loading resistor across the output of a mid-to-high impedance volume control in order to achieve the "audio taper" (i.e., more-or-less uniform volume change with rotation).  If the Adcom employs this, it would work fairly well as long as the volume control stays below, say, 2 o'clock (again).  Rotate farther and the source sees a too-low load impedance and starts having its own problems, especially extreme bass rolloff.  This is a kludgy way of doing things and I'd expect more sophistication from Adcom.

Probably the best thing to do is to try the Adcom in both "passive" and "active" modes with the Stratos.  There's not likely to be any problem whatsoever in the "active" mode.  Passive?  Who knows?  Listen and discover.  You're not likely to have problems with solid-state sources in either mode.

DTB300

Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #2 on: 19 Jun 2004, 11:19 pm »
Recently when I went out to purchase a new Pre to replace my old broken Counterpoint pre.  I went to my local SS thinking I was going to buy the Adcom based like you on reviews and comments.  I listened in both passive and active and the Adcom did sound better in passive mode.  Not night and day for me and my tastes, but better.  I then took a $500 step up and auditioned the ARC SP-16L and never looked back.  It was night and day for me in the sound quality and repoduction.  The wife was not too happy about the additional cost, but the when she heard the sound of the new pre she was also sold.

What does all of this do for your system and your tastes?  Nothing.  Go listen to one yourself and compare to equal cost or even slightly higher like I did.  I found the Adcom still to be too SS sounding as I had a tube pre for a long time and is probably why I chose the ARC.  Good reputable  stores will even let you purchase the demo model to take home and audition in your own equipment.  You then bring it back and they tear up the CC slip and you decide from there.

Later....Dan

doug s.

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Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #3 on: 20 Jun 2004, 02:44 am »
hey avalon, on another thread ya were looking for a gfp-750, so i pointed ya in a coupla directions, figuring ya were awreddy set knowing what ya wanted...  but, if yure up to other ideas, i agree w/dtb300 - go toobs!  i have also heard the arc ls16, & agree it's a fine piece.  of course, it was paired w/an arc s/s 100.2 amp, which is proac usa's recommended set-up for their 2.5 speaker, & that's the system i am familiar with.  if *i* were looking for a preamp in that price-range, tho, i would pic a melos sha-gold or maestro over all comers.  there's a few f/s on a-gon..

doug s.

rkapadia@ROOP

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Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #4 on: 20 Jun 2004, 08:40 am »
Having owned a GFP-750 in my system, I would say the unit is mediocre as best.  The biggest plus at that price point is that it offers source switching.  

While my opinion of the Mono Extreme migh vary from most, I will agree it is one of the best solutions at that price point for price / performance ratio.

Ditch the preamplifier, replace with something more interesting (an upgraded Foreplay being my preference of option), and then analyze your system for improvements.


Kind Regards,

Rupesh

rosconey

Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #5 on: 20 Jun 2004, 10:15 am »
why not a tempest :?: or the new passive  from odyssey :o

djbnh

I second the Tempest
« Reply #6 on: 20 Jun 2004, 10:45 am »
I second Rosconey's opinion about considering the Tempest. Huge soundstage, great imaging and detail, wonderful phono section included (MM/MC), high build quality, various options (such as a 2nd set of outputs, remote, HT bypass, upgraded phono board, etc), 20 year guarantee, and Klaus to make sure everything is perfect. If you can't afford new, on ocassion a Tempest is available on A-gon; one just sold for $750.

Haven't heard the passive...nor does the Tempest have a passive mode.

EDS_

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Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #7 on: 20 Jun 2004, 07:26 pm »
Quote from: rkapadia@ROOP
Having owned a GFP-750 in my system, I would say the unit is mediocre as best.  The biggest plus at that price point is that it offers source switching.  

While my opinion of the Mono Extreme migh vary from most, I will agree it is one of the best solutions at that price point for price / performance ratio.

Ditch the preamplifier, replace with something more interesting (an upgraded Foreplay being my preference of option), and then analyze your system for improvements.


Kind Regards
Rupesh


My time with 750s has yielded a polar opposite outcome.
I've had several "better" pres, including a C.A.T., and always go back to the simple and ugly 750.
Some points are:
a. the passive mode is very,very ,very dependent on i/cs.
b. 750s sound better single ended than balanced.
c. I generally run Llano hybrid amps so I get a tubes in play.
d. I think the vibration control/isolation thing can be overplayed. However any 750 owner must ditch the hardish rubber feet and repace them with something better. I use Black Diamond Racing cones to great effect.

Musky_Don

Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #8 on: 20 Jun 2004, 10:08 pm »
avalon 65,

I own a Tempest and a pair of Extreme monoblocks.  I owned a TLP-1 for a short period of time.  My neighber bought a used GFP-750 awhile back.  I had a chance to pair it w/the Odyssey amps.  IMHO, it was not a good match.  In fact, I liked the TLP-1 better.  There might have been a problem  with the Adcom as it was used.  I don't think so - no apparent problems - it just didn't have the clarity or extension I expected at that price.  The Tempest IMO blowa away both the Adcom and the Anthem with the Odyssey amps.  No comparison - not even close to being in the same league.

Don

avalon65

Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #9 on: 21 Jun 2004, 02:18 am »
All,

Thank you for your inputs. I wanted to respond to numerous suggestions and offer some additional information.

Why my interest in the 750? - Besides the various favorable reviews, it has the features I desire; five inputs(although I could live w/4), offers passive mode(see below), has a remote control, a second set of outputs so I can incorporate my sub(although I don't really need it for music), and is right at my price point(used). I became addicted to higher end audio about a year ago and have been a steady player in the musical chair game of upgrading/changing equipment. Do I think that the 750 is the end all of preamps? No, but at this time and at this price point, I like what it offers.

Why not a Tempest? - I would LOVE a Tempest to complete my system synergy. The problems I have for now it that it's only available with a 19" faceplate. My cabinet is 18" wide. Due to functionality, I won't be able to position it in the corner behind my entertainment system where my Stratos sits. Also, I cannot afford to order a new Tempest with all the desired features I know Klaus offers, so I have to shop elsewhere. Someday soon I will own a Tempest. If a 17" faceplate becomes available that day may be here in no time.

Why my passive interest? - I am still amazed at how much cleaner and open the little Creek OBH-12(output impedance of 0-50 kOhms) sounds when compared to the Anthem. Now granted the Anthem is pulling double duty and a pre and a tuner. Maybe I'm attributing too much to passive pre-amps in general and should give more credit to this particular Creek unit. My newbie status to this hobby makes me want to conclude that all passive pre-amps are created equal. But I suppose a general assumption like that is faulty logic. Has anybody else had similar experiences with the OBH-12? It's based on this unit that I thought I would give the passive Adcom a try.

In the past year and a half I've read every post in this Odyssey circle and numerous other. Not to mention my daily reads on A'gon, AA, and HD. I have learned a great deal. Thank you all and keep the comments coming!

Regards,
Larry

P.S. To address other items: I have no need for a phono stage, my budget is firm at around $750, I use Groneberg Series 3 unbalanced ICs(3 pair), Signal Power cords and I troll A'gon and e-Bay daily

doug s.

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Opinions about Adcom GFP-750 w/capped-up Stratos
« Reply #10 on: 22 Jun 2004, 12:56 am »
larry, i like the obh-12 i have used as a temporary fix to get remote into my system.  but, toobs are better.  and i like having the gain of an active preamp - i used my creek to feed signal to integrated amps, so there was still an active preamp in the mix w/the creek.  if ya insist on solid-state for a pre, i don't think ya can do better than this unit at anywhere near the price - only the magic of my modded melos ma333r was able to conwince me to part w/mine:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1093028118

and, the ergonomics of this unit are excellent - a fantastic remote.

doug s.