[stevenkelby]

I can't believe no one mentioned GR Super Vs! They will do a true 20-20'000 within a few db at 100Db+

Sadly the kits are sold out now, no more of the coax drivers are being made. Might be able to use a different driver though.

That rotary sub looks awesome though, I recently read that ridiculous, terribly written, million word  review here:

http://www.iar-80.com/page142.html

Despite being the most badly written review I have ever read of any thing ever, it does contain some good info. Could have been a great article if it was edited down by 95%.

I would love one of those rotary subs one day. 

[Guy 13]

I can't believe no one mentioned GR Super Vs! They will do a true 20-20'000 within a few db at 100Db+

Sadly the kits are sold out now, no more of the coax drivers are being made. Might be able to use a different driver though.

That rotary sub looks awesome though, I recently read that ridiculous, terribly written, million word  review here:

http://www.iar-80.com/page142.html

Despite being the most badly written review I have ever read of any thing ever, it does contain some good info. Could have been a great article if it was edited down by 95%.

I would love one of those rotary subs one day. 

Hi stevenkelby and all Audio Circle members.
I started to read the review, but stopped when I saw
that there was a 10 page write-up and not a single photo.
That's terrible! 
I agree with you stevenkelby, this could have been cut by 95%.
Of course the products might be good, but like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
By the way: This evening I was listening to some disco music, you know that noise they call music with lots of BOOM, BOOM...
I can say that my V1 really go down to 20hz.
The more I listen to them, the more I like them.
Thanks Danny.

Guy 13

[stevenkelby]

Most of the words there are just repetition anyway. A very frustrating read!

[Quiet Earth]

In my younger days there wasn't Subwoofers and not many speakers really went low.  I had a pair of Altec Voice of the Theater's (A7's) that reached down with authority and a good friend a pair of JBL 4420's that delivered the goods. 

Today I heard a pair of Magnepan 20.7's fed by McIntosh tube mono blocks that amazed me by how much bass they delivered below 40hz.  I wouldn't call it outright slam, but was very fast and articulate.

Old school Altecs and JBLs. Large planar bass. Big, bold and present, fast and tight. Musically compelling enough that you don't care if you're missing the last few Hertz,,, or if there is a "dip" somewhere. Deep enough to make you wonder how an single woofer inside a plywood box can do all of that and still sound good at the same time. And with only a handful of watts.....

That's what I love about my Audio Note Es.   

[jackman]

These speakers are full range and sound excellent.  Bass is very deep, tight and musical.  The photo doesn't show the two side PR's and the amplifier on the back of each speaker for the subs.  After hearing these, it would be difficult to go back to simple passive three way speakers with no way of adjusting the bass output or EQ.  They are -3dB down to 18hz. 

Of course the new Bamberg Series 6's are even better...

http://bambergaudio.com/products/series6/series-6-mtmw.php

http://bambergaudio.com/products/series5/series-5-tmw.php

[Soundminded]

In my younger days there wasn't Subwoofers and not many speakers really went low.  I had a pair of Altec Voice of the Theater's (A7's) that reached down with authority and a good friend a pair of JBL 4420's that delivered the goods.  Sure there was Cerwin Vega, Advent and such, but the bass was boomy and slow. 

Fast forward 35 years...

Today I heard a pair of Magnepan 20.7's fed by McIntosh tube mono blocks that amazed me by how much bass they delivered below 40hz.  I wouldn't call it outright slam, but was very fast and articulate. We played them with and without subs and they sounded better without. The subs were JL Fathom F112's.

I know there has to be other full range speakers that can also go low and would like to hear from all of you guys with your first hand accounts of which speakers you feel don't need subwoofer augmentation.

Jim

Around the mid 1950s The New York Audio League, predecessor to the AES held a live versus recorded demonstration using four Acoustic Research AR1Ws driven by Western Electric 150 watt amplifiers and an Aolean Skinner pipe organ at Riverside Church in upper Manhattan. AR became the king of the deep with bass down to 30 hz with only 5% THD. The same driver in various itterations was used in many AR speakers including the landmark AR3 on exhibit at the Smithsonian and AR3a, one of the most widely purchased high quality loudspeaker systems. Teledyne AR9 uses two such drivers in a 5 driver 4 way combination. In my 4000 cubic foot room it will produce wall shaking window rattling gut wrenching bass. It is equalizable flat to below the audible passband. I've always favored acoustic suspension woofer designs over ported designs. Careful placement, adequate amplifier power, and careful equalization can make such speaker systems produce all the bass anyone could want.

[*Scotty*]

Are these the speakers that you currently use in your system.
Scotty

[Soundminded]

Are these the speakers that you currently use in your system.
Scotty

Yes, they are the main speakers in my main system. I've altered their voicing considerably by substantially enhancing their treble. I've added 11 indirect firing 3/8" poly tweeters per channel. They fire at the walls and ceiling. Using the speaker level controls and equalizations for both the room's acoustics and each recording individually they can accurately reproduce the tonality of all acoustic instruments from most recordings. The process of equalization is a very tedious one especially for the room. It takes me up to two years. Recordings are much easier requiring usually only a few minutes each. Although the woofers will handle up to 400 wpc, they are being driven by a 60 wpc Mosfet amplifier built from a kit about 20 years ago. They are difficult speakers to drive like virtually all Acoustic Research 12" system from AR1W through Teledyne AR9 because they have a very low impedance at some frequencies. They are nominally 4 ohms but in some variants this driver/enclosure combination goes to 1 ohm or lower. However, this amplifier is entirely stable driving them.

In 2008 the woofers and lower midrange drivers were refoamed by Millersound in Landsdale Pa. At that time I replaced 7 of 9 capacitors in each crossover network. I used ordinary NPCs. The two metal can computer grade caps are the originals.

[Quiet Earth]

Wow! That sounds really cool.  . I always wanted a pair of AR9s when I was a kid. I never got to hear them though....  I could only drool over them in the magazines back in the day.

Thanks for sharing that story.

[jimdgoulding]

These speakers are full range and sound excellent.  Bass is very deep, tight and musical.  The photo doesn't show the two side PR's and the amplifier on the back of each speaker for the subs.  After hearing these, it would be difficult to go back to simple passive three way speakers with no way of adjusting the bass output or EQ.  They are -3dB down to 18hz. 

Of course the new Bamberg Series 6's are even better...

http://bambergaudio.com/products/series6/series-6-mtmw.php

http://bambergaudio.com/products/series5/series-5-tmw.php

These speakers are WAY interesting.  For the price these full range active speakers outta get auditioned at the very least.  I think links to some reviews can be seen at the site.  They certainly have design features that address about everything even to include offset tweeters.

[Pete Schumacher]

My DIY 12" 3-ways are true full range speakers, with in-room extension to below 20Hz (F10 of 14Hz).  15" Passive Radiator on the back. Just add a 250-1000W amp and you're good to go.   

[neekomax]

What would you consider 'full range' for a stand mount speaker? How about just under 30 Hz in room response?

[jackman]

These speakers are WAY interesting.  For the price these full range active speakers outta get auditioned at the very least.  I think links to some reviews can be seen at the site.  They certainly have design features that address about everything even to include offset tweeters.

Hi Jim,

I have been listening to these for a few months and they are truly amazing.  If you are near Indy, you might want to talk to Phil Bamberg and set up an audition.  He has a new design, series 6, that takes his design philosophy to an even higher level.  The speakers can be set up for nearfield and standard listening and his design notes are on the site.  I saw the speakers in person and they are stunning.  No idea about price but it's more than I can afford at the moment. 

I also have my older Series 5MTM's with subwoofer stands dialed in and I'm constantly amazed by the articulate and powerful bass.  Phil's new active sub design (the one pictured) uses a ten inch Peerless woofer in the sub and two ten inch passive radiators.  My speakers are the older design with the same ten inch woofers, but with only one 12 inch passive radiator per speaker.  I'm using the DCX  as a crossover with a Crown K1 powering the subs.  The subs go down low and the system sounds great, IMO.

My MTM's seem more dynamic than the MT monitors but the monitors seem to image better (more pinpoint) and project a slightly larger image.  If you have a chance to hear these, I would appreciate your comments.  Phil is picking up my demo pair of Series 5's and dropping them off to someone in Iowa next week.  There are some reviews on-line, including a really good one from Dagogo (sp?).  For the money, these are truly full range and hard to beat.

Cheers,
J

[jimdgoulding]

Thanks, Jackman, for a thoughtful reply.  I'm not really in the market, tho I am flirting around with some Magnepan 1.7's, but that's another conversation.  I run fully active speakers at present, btw.  Based on what I've been able to read, I have no doubt that the Bamberg's can do it all very well and then some.  If I liked what I heard, I'd buy them, upgrade my pre and build a dedicated room in my back yard before I'd buy Magico's.  Were I able, of course.  Happy listening and give is another report down the road.

[roscoeiii]

Surprised the Von Schweikerts have not been brought up here. I wanted to go full range floorstanders and grabbed a pair of VR-4 Gen IIs as part of a sick home theater 7 speaker set. The main rear speakers in that set reached down to ~25Hz, as did the LCR-31 center channel speaker. Shame I only have room for the VR-4s.

[roscoeiii]

What would you consider 'full range' for a stand mount speaker? How about just under 30 Hz in room response?

For a standmount, I'd say you are doing great in the 30s. Love my SP Tech Minis which are 3 dB down at 35Hz. Though for the uber-bass (electronic largely: James Blake, Sunn 0))) & hip-hop) I did add a REL Storm III to the Minis. but it was needed for a very small proportion of my music.

[gsm18439]

Zu Definition MK4s are full-range. Mine measure flat to 16Hz.

[Don_S]

Be careful what you ask for. A rotary sub almost made me puke at a show demo. I had to leave the room when it got all down low. 

I can't believe no one mentioned GR Super Vs! They will do a true 20-20'000 within a few db at 100Db+

Sadly the kits are sold out now, no more of the coax drivers are being made. Might be able to use a different driver though.

That rotary sub looks awesome though, I recently read that ridiculous, terribly written, million word  review here:

http://www.iar-80.com/page142.html

Despite being the most badly written review I have ever read of any thing ever, it does contain some good info. Could have been a great article if it was edited down by 95%.

I would love one of those rotary subs one day. 

[stevenkelby]

Well that doesn't sound like fun!

[klipschfan]

EgglestonWorks Andra III.....no subs required.
http://egglestonworks.com/products/the-andra-iii/
http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/egglestonworks_andraiii.htm