[ajzepp]

Here's a few quick pics of the finished room...I'll make some aesthetic changes down the road, but for now I'm kaput. It looks a fair bit nicer in person than it does in these pics, but this will give an idea of where things stand...I have to say, for a mini-theater room, it ain't half bad 

[ajzepp]

So I've had some time to really get a feel for the whole complement of RSL speakers in a 5.1 configuration. I thought I'd share some thoughts about the experience...

First things first, these speakers scale really well. I'm glad that I used them with only a cheapo 2-channel Onkyo 50wpc receiver to start, cause I've been able to see the scaling in effect here. The good news is that for those on a tight budget, you can pair either the CG24s or the CG4s with an inexpensive piece and get really solid sound. I could have been pretty happy with just the CG24s and the Onkyo, with my Outlaw subwoofer connected at the speaker level inputs/outputs. I had the benefit of a high quality front end that was currently not in use, however, and it's very clear that these speakers can bring it when you let them play with the big boys. My Butler 5150 (150wpc) amp and McCormack MAP-1 multi-channel preamp are untouchables in my rig. They've been the hub of my system since 2009 and they will continue to be for a long time to come. I simply allow my Oppo player to handle the processing and bass mgmt and keep my analog gear intact. It's a fantastic alternative to using a surround receiver, although in this case - as mentioned above - a receiver is all you need with these speakers.

So what is impressing me the most? I've never believed in spending a lot of money on surrounds. I could see it if I was more into MC music, but for HT it's just not my preference to break the bank on the rear speakers. That being said, the CG4s are the best surround speakers I've ever heard. Even in a less than ideal room in terms of acoustics (I only have two pieces of treatment up at this time...more to come), the quality of the surround effects is mind-boggling to me. The lady friend and I have been spending a lot of time watching past episodes of Dexter the last few months, and even with something like this the surround field has a subtlety and a realism to it that really impresses. I expected the surrounds in a small room to be a bit distracting, and I really was thinking I didn't even want to install surrounds in this room, but if I hadn't gone this route I would have been missing out on a big part of the experience. The best compliment I can pay them is that they not only create a beautiful sound field in back, they sort of pull aspects of the front stage out into the room to create a very impressive three dimensional effect. To date, the only time I've experienced this previously was with my Magnepans...it's not something I ever thought speakers at this price point could do. In a very small area, these RSLs pull a disappearing act that Houdini himself would be amazed by.

When I became a fan of Magnepans, I honestlly felt as if they ruined me for all box speakers. I have heard countless speakers at all sorts of price points, and there has been only two instances where I came across a pair of boxes that could give me a level of transparency that prevented me from missing the Maggies enough to where I could happily live with them.  The first pair was the excellent DeVore Fidelity Super 8s (and also the Reference Silverbacks). The DeVores are almost entirely free of coloration and they allow the listener to expertly scrutinize the gear upstream and detect even the smallest changes to the signal path, but they also just get completely out of the way and allow the recording to come through as honestly and purely as possible. Transparency is a beautiful thing and when there is a LACK of transparency it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. One of the great disappointments for me was when I first heard the Von Schweikert VR4 Jrs. I SO wanted to love those speakers...beautiful contemporary design...amazing low end....but ugh, the coloration just was a deal breaker for me. I have very sensitive hearing, and for whatever reason it doesn't take much for me to be able to hear when the speaker fails to get the heck out of the way. The first time I heard John DeVores speakers, it was like a breath of fresh air. It was like having no speaker at all. I say this because I'm AMAZED by what I'm going to say next about the RSLs....to my complete surprise, especially since I felt these were being marketed primarily as HT speakers, they have a level of transparency that meets my very strict standards and allows me to forget that I'm listening to speakers. This, above all else, was the nicest surprise of my month-long audition of the RSLs. And that's a big reason why I'm actually very strongly considering adding a 2nd Apple express and DAC to the RSL rig in order to use this system for music in addition to movies. My only focus was to put together a mini-HT for movies only...so the fact that I'm considering taking these steps is another way that I'm trying to really pay a compliment to these beauties.

Anyway, Iv'e rambled on long enough...my time with these excellent speakers has been truly an enjoyable and fun ride. They far surpassed the expectations I had for them and ended up surprising me in several ways that I never saw coming. Whether you're looking for an amazing HT system or you have your sights on finding a way to put together a high end music rig for far less money than you'd ever expect to spend for this level of sonic goodness, I cannot recommend RSL more highly. I am extremely critical of "box" speakers, but both the 24s and the 4s really couldn't have cared less about that....in the words of the immortal Peter Venkman...."they came, they saw, they kicked my A**!!"   

Thanks to all those who chimed in along the way and also to those who have continued to read all of this lol....this will be my last entry, but I'll continue to check back periodically.

Happy Listening!

[ltr317]

Hi AJ,

I see you went with the Rogersound Labs instead of the Silverlines or Ascends.  Have fun with them!


Cheers,
Paul Mah

[mcgsxr]

Thanks for the follow up on this.  I have followed with interest, and was assuming you liked them since you kept them, but I appreciate the wrap up commentary, as it will help folks make decisions in the future.

I am finishing off my basement at present, and trying to sort through HT decisions.  The budget is on hold for the HT gear, until the full cost of the construction is understood, but these may become an interesting option, and one I honestly would never otherwise consider.

[bummrush]

I wonder how they compare to the little Pioneers sr 21's ?

[ajzepp]

Thanks for the follow up on this.  I have followed with interest, and was assuming you liked them since you kept them, but I appreciate the wrap up commentary, as it will help folks make decisions in the future.

I am finishing off my basement at present, and trying to sort through HT decisions.  The budget is on hold for the HT gear, until the full cost of the construction is understood, but these may become an interesting option, and one I honestly would never otherwise consider.

Thanks for chiming in! I wasn't sure anyone was listening at certain points along the way, so the fact that some of you guys have let me know you're on the journey with me has made it all the more fun.

It's both funny and ironic that you said what you did in your last sentence...I had a brief correspondence with Joe at RSL earlier today, and here is part of the email I sent to him:

Probably the best compliment I could pay you is by saying that in all honesty, there was very little chance I was going to choose to keep these speakers. I truly thought that much of what I read on your website was some sort of marketing effort, and in the back of my brain I felt some of the feedback I had read was dubious at best. I even recall your dad telling me about a customer who owns Soundlab speakers, some of the absolute best speakers on the planet, who had apparently told Howard that his secondary RSL system was so good that he felt it could compete with the Soundlabs. Joe, I truly thought this was complete BS lol. I have heard countless "box" speakers over the years, and there is a reason why I don't own any of them....that's why I have huge 6 foot Maggies, cause boxes just don't cut it. But I'll be darned, I am sincerely able to now understand what the Soundlab guy meant and I have ZERO doubt that he was telling your dad the truth. I still can't believe I'm saying it, but although I will always love Magnepans, the RSLs really can compete."

I have been spending quite a lot of time really scrutinizing these speakers for music, because as I said earlier, I honestly had NO intention of using them for anything but HT....but truly, to NOT use them for music would be a waste...that's the conclusion I've come to over the last few weeks. Last night I was playing around with my Oppo player and I noticed that they have Pandora on the main menu....I just fired it up out of curiosity, and even with a lesser quality streaming source the RSLs impressed the heck out of me.  And don't get me wrong, someone who is in the market for a $10k pair of Soundlabs or Maggies probably isn't going to choose a pair of RSLs over them. But I'm telling you with absolutely sincerity, in terms of the enjoyment I get from spending time with these things, I have yet to think to myself, "if only I could fit the Maggies in the room...."  I feel as if I've been able magically create a secondary system for only a fraction of the cost of my main system, but that could also give me an equal level of enjoyment.  The idea of being able to achieve that was not even on my radar when I started this....I just wanted good sound for movies. I've ended up with way, way more. I feel as if I've hit the jackpot here.

[ajzepp]

Hi AJ,

I see you went with the Rogersound Labs instead of the Silverlines or Ascends.  Have fun with them!


Cheers,
Paul Mah

Hey Paul! Trust me, I'm just as surprised as anyone else lol...as you know, I really had my eyes on those Silverlines...the RSLs caught me fully by surprise and have ended up completely captivating me. In what is by all measures a really lousy room in terms of acoustics, the sense of immersion and the overall realism of the experience made the decision to keep them easy.  I truly did never expect to keep these, let alone end up buying the surrounds and the center to boot!

[Russell Dawkins]

Maybe the next logical step would be to order the sub(s). Or did you?

Seems to me one reviewer thought the sub was the unsuspected star of the show:

“I really believe the star of the RSL CG system is the Speedwoofer™ 10. Once properly set up it delivered strong, deep and dynamic bass with truly excellent detail. In my main system I use a subwoofer that costs 3 times the RSL yet does not go as deep with the same level of detail.”

[ajzepp]

PS: Just a quick note about the center speaker...

I have always had a love/hate relationship with centers....I've enjoyed a 4.1 configuration at times as much or more than a 5.1 rig. I have always felt that a phantom center was too often overlooked and that in some situations (i.e. no listeners/viewers sitting off-axis) it was superior to a hard center, especially when you had mains that could throw a rock solid center image. If you can see in the pics I've posted, I have the center speaker several feet below the bottom of the screen, which means that it's even further away from the location of the faces on the screen, which is obviously where the vocals would need to appear to be coming from. I had already ordered the little center pedestal from Emotiva before the center arrived....and when it first got here all I had was four little sorbothane bumpers in each corner of the RSL center so that it wasn't sitting flat on the tv stand. This provided no degree of upward angling at all...it was perfectly perpendicular to the seating location. I'll be damned if this little speaker wasn't throwing a perfectly natural vocal that really did allow the images to seem absolutely natural. I could have very easily just left it as is and it would have sounded just as good as it does now....I'm keeping the pedestal for aesthetic reasons, but I purchased it because I thought I'd NEED it....I really didn't. As much as I enjoy the speakers in general, I really can't get over how seamless the soundfield is...above all else, that's the biggest surprise for me with this whole thing. The center blends in perfectly with the other CG24s and with the CG4s in back. For anyone who has interest in a surround application, I can't recommend this system highly enough...it's the difference between a wall of sound and an entire room of sound.

Dang, it's 130 am! I'll ramble on about these things all night lol....have a great weekend everyone!!

[ajzepp]

Maybe the next logical step would be to order the sub(s). Or did you?

Seems to me one reviewer thought the sub was the unsuspected star of the show:

“I really believe the star of the RSL CG system is the Speedwoofer™ 10. Once properly set up it delivered strong, deep and dynamic bass with truly excellent detail. In my main system I use a subwoofer that costs 3 times the RSL yet does not go as deep with the same level of detail.”

I really wish I could, but I'm afraid to lol. I live in an apartment for at least the next 8 mo or so, and I fear that if the sub is half as good as the speakers, I will have some pretty upset neighbors! 

[ajzepp]

Just wanted to chime in on a really fun experience I had last night.

I'm pretty spoiled in terms of tweeters, owning the Magnepan 3.6s...the Magnepan ribbon tweeter is considered by some to be the best on earth. That being said, I jsut can't get over how impressed I am with the high end on these RSLs. Last night I was watching Survivor on the projector, so I thought I'd go ahead and run the audio through the RSLs instead of just using the speakers in the projector itself. Those of you who watch this show know that the music is often times very engaging, with all sorts of interesting instrumentation and such. Even though the source was nothing more than the analog stereo outs on my cable box, the sound was just unreal. My friend and I were just looking at each other in amazement at how cool the survivor music sounded. The last time this happened was in 2007 just after I had installed a bunch of room treatments. My DeVore Super 8s were making the Survivor music sound pretty amazing, just like last night. The only difference was that those were $5k speakers and these are a fraction of that price.

With some gear, we get excited when we buy it and really enjoy listenign to it, and then over time the honeymoon phase sort of dissipates along with the excitement. But then there is the gear you buy that just seems to impress each and every time, and in some cases even get better. After four months, I'm loving these speakers more each day.

[steveting99]

Hi,

I've been looking at forums that have actual users who have purchased the CG4 / CG24 speakers from RSL and provided some impressions/feedback. This is one of the better threads that something useful.

Would like to know at what SPL you're normal listening at? I'm also living in an apartment and have to keep the volumes down.

Steve

[ajzepp]

Hey Steve...sorry, I didn't even see your post! 

In all honesty I'm not really sure what the actual SPL meter would read in terms of the level at which I watch movies, but I usually like to listen at moderate volume....usually it's just about the level that guests would say is the point where they wouldn't want to go much louder. I know that's not easy to translate to your situation, but the good news is that the RSLs can play as loud and clean as you want.

When I first fired up the little guys in my living room to audition them, they were able to fill the entire area (kitchen, dining room, living room) with sound, which was very impressive. I don't know if this helps at all, but if these speakers look like they may fit your needs, I'd highly recommend giving them an audition.

I can't believe it's been ten months already since I bought these lol...been a great ride and these will be keepers for a long while to come.

[ajzepp]

Do you guys ever hit some random button after typing out some lengthy response, making the entire post just disappear into thin air? I swear, I have no idea how I developed this talent, and Im certain it's not the same button every time, but magically I'm able to make entire paragraphs just go *poof* at the drop of a hat, completely accidentally...very frustrating!

Anyway, I wanted to offer a quick update on my RSL rig...

I sold my beloved McCormack MAP-1 last month in an effort to downsize a bit. I picked up an Outlaw 975, their entry level pre/pro. I know some of you guys will be like, "duh!!!" when I say this, but this is the first time I've ever used video switching, so I've been plugging in all my sources and using the Outlaw with one HDMI output to my projector. This is literally the first time I've ever bothered to take advantage of the Dolby Digital encoding on network and cable television. Usually I've only bothered with digital audio when I've watched a bluray. So this is a whole new experience for me.

Well, I've had these speakers for nearly a year now and have enjoyed my time with them immensely, but I think I've just now come to a realization...as much as I love my Magnepan CC3 - a center speaker that iv'e always considered the best I've ever heard - the RSL CG24 is every bit its equal. One of the disadvantages of using the McCormack was that the Oppo's bass management only allowed me to set one crossover point for all the speakers. The Outlaw has the triple crossover, so I've been able to adjust accordingly, and as a result the overall sound stage has actually improved. I've been able to listen to these speakers - and namely the CG24 center - in a few ways that I've never heard them, with shows that I've never associated with quality audio. So this has been a pretty nice enhancement, even though it was really hard to make the decision to move on from the McCormack.

I know I've eluded to this earlier in the thread, but I really feel like I hit the jackpot when I came across this company. My favorite products are the ones that stand the test of time, and I'm well on my way to including the RSL speakers in that very special group of audio products I've owned over the years that ended up being "untouchables". I've gotten pretty good at the whole research thing when I'm in buying mode, but I do it out of necessity more than I do it for fun. So when I'm able to find such a high level of satisfaction from a purchase, it's really a great feeling cause I know I won't have to worry about looking for anything else for a really long time.

I hope that some of you have given these great speakers an audition over the past year as a result of this thread...if not, and if you're in the market, definitely give them a listen...I've heard a LOT of gear over the years, and I can say with absolute certainty that you'd have a REALLY hard time doing better than these speakers and this price point or even higher.

Thanks for reading!

[Bob in St. Louis]

Do you guys ever hit some random button after typing out some lengthy response, making the entire post just disappear into thin air?

Oh yea, many times. So many times in fact that I've learned to periodically highlight everything and [copy], just in case I hit that magic button.
I also use it on emails just before I press the [send] button in case my email gets sent to "no where" and I can't get it back. It's very gratifying to simply click [paste] and have all my hard work magically come back.

Hope that helps,
Bob

EDIT: What a coincidence....I submitted this post and got 'Internet Explorer can't display this webpage'.
Good thing I had it [copied].   

[ajzepp]

That's a great idea, Bob...I need to get into that habit!! 

It's so frustrating when I write something up only to have it completely disappear...I just wish I knew how I was so good at doing it!

[Bob in St. Louis]

You're very welcome. Glad I could help.
If I ever find out what combination of Windows buttons are the "Delete all my hard work" feature, I'll be sure to let you know. 

[JohnR]

Not using IE would be a good proactive way to avoid this type of problem.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Not using IE would be a good proactive way to avoid this type of problem.

I use Chrome at home and still have the problem. In fact, Chrome locks up my PC for as much as 15 minutes at a time. I've learned that if I don't touch the PC, it will "come back to life" after it's finished doing whatever it's doing and nothing is lost.
IE at work never does that.

But the button thing we're talking about is a keyboard issue. Actually, it's more like an accidental clumsy thing where you drag your fingers across just the right ("wrong") combination of buttons that erase what you've typed. It's not a software problem. 

Bob

[ajzepp]

Yeah, I use chrome, too...I figured for sure there would at least be an "undo" option, but to no avail....I'll just start getting into the habit of copying like you do, Bob...I just can't take it anymore lol