[jimdgoulding]

Put your speakers into an equidistant triangle and see what happens.  Out from the walls a ways.  Your seat, too.

[JoshK]

I think the theory/concept is interesting, but everytime I've heard omni-speakers, i've been underwhelmed.   I heard great Duevels at my friend's place and they were damn good but still not very focused compared to more traditional speakers.   Good, but not swaying for me.

[FireGuy]

From Andrew Welker...Axiom Audio:

Omnidrectional speakers are probably one of the more challenging types of designs that a loudspeaker designer can undertake. Part of the reason is that you have to deal with a lot of factors in terms of how the speaker interacts with the room, and how the different parts of the speaker interact with one another.

One good question that I often get is “Why omnidirectional in the first place? What’s wrong with a conventional forward-radiating speaker?” And the answer is nothing. Axiom builds a lot of very successful models, including the award-winning M80, that are forward-radiating speakers. [Forward radiating speakers] perform extremely well, they image extremely well, and they can be totally neutral if properly designed.

What omnidirectional does is it just opens up the sense of space and proportions of instruments and singers and things that are going on in the musical stage. It also – for me, one of the most important aspects, and one of the most enjoyable – is the fact that omnidirectional speakers seem to have a sound that emanates from nowhere and everywhere at the same time. So the speakers essentially disappear. When that’s done properly it really allows you to think for a second that you’re now taking part in a live musical experience, rather than listening to a reproduction, and that’s extremely compelling.


Sound radiates from the front and back of the LFR1100s
The issue with omnidirectional speakers as I mentioned is that they’re tricky in terms of the interactions. One of the basic interactions which we can measure in a space like inside an anechoic chamber that we’re in right now, is how the front and the rear drive units interact with one another. There’s some issues with cancellation between those drive units and interaction between them, without even bringing the room and reflections into the equation. The only way that we’ve been able to overcome that is through the use of a circuit that incorporates a DSP or Digital Signal Processor. This allows us to tailor everything that’s going on with the front drive units and the rear drive units independent of one another. That allows us to overcome any issues of negative interaction between the parts. This allows you to get a much more neutral tonal balance than a lot of omnidirectional and bipolar-type speakers that are on the market.

The other question I get very often is “What happens when you put this sort of speaker in different rooms? What happens if I place it fairly close to the room boundaries or the back wall.”  Admittedly things will change depending on where the speaker is positioned, but that holds true for any loudspeaker. If you’ve ever moved your speakers around and played with positioning, you know that it impacts the sound. This sort of loudspeaker is no different.

One of the things we’ve been able to address is the rear wall positioning. Again, that’s through the use of the DSP. If your speaker has to be placed fairly close to the back wall, we’re able to compensate so that you still get the spacious full effect of the LFR speaker even though it’s not maybe ideally positioned out in the room a couple of feet from the rear wall.

So those are a couple of areas that we’ve managed to address that really propel the performance of the LFR beyond any of our other products.

[mark funk]

A Boes 901 would be that kind of speaker right?

                                                                                                                           

[Early B.]

I'm one of a very small number of people who own a pair of GR Research's omnidirectional O-3's. Despite their great sound, Danny says they are difficult to sell because the design is unusual. Frankly, if Danny didn't design this speaker, I would have no interest in them whatsoever. Drivers mounted on top of speakers are kinda freaky, IMO. They are used in a 13' x 20' x 8' room along the short wall with about three feet from the side and back walls. More space would be ideal, but these speakers replaced a pair of VMPS floor standers and easily outperformed them. According to Danny, they sound virtually identical to his open baffle designs that use the same drivers (except for the bass, of course).     

[JLM]

I can't recall a truly omni-directional design.  In theory a cube with very small (no beaming of high frequencies) or coincendental drivers on each face all operating in phase hanging from a string (away from walls as mentioned above) would be one possible option (but very limited bass).

But is omni-directional how it was miked/mixed?  As mentioned above much classical music is (but only makes sense if the number of mikes equals the number of speakers).  Most musical genres are recorded close miked.  Would you want a huge soundstage filled with a voice?  Depending again on how it's recorded, what type of imaging (size, location) can you expect with a true omni-directional design?

IMO it's best to use the same playback setup as used in the studio (apart from wanting to enjoy versus "over analyze" the performance).  That would typically be 2-way active monitors used in a nearfield setup.

[JerryLove]

I used to own some Ohm Walsh F's.

I think there's a lot to be said for omnis and near-omnis (much of B&O's current stuff, or Mirage IIRC). Though I can't help but think we can get 90% of the way there by making sure we have good off-axis performance and mirroring drivers on the front and back (above the baffle-point at least).

I'm seeing a good chunk of that being done by many speaker manufacturers.

[Doublej]

I can't recall a truly omni-directional design.  In theory a cube with very small (no beaming of high frequencies) or coincendental drivers on each face all operating in phase hanging from a string (away from walls as mentioned above) would be one possible option (but very limited bass).

But is omni-directional how it was miked/mixed?  As mentioned above much classical music is (but only makes sense if the number of mikes equals the number of speakers).  Most musical genres are recorded close miked.  Would you want a huge soundstage filled with a voice?  Depending again on how it's recorded, what type of imaging (size, location) can you expect with a true omni-directional design?

IMO it's best to use the same playback setup as used in the studio (apart from wanting to enjoy versus "over analyze" the performance).  That would typically be 2-way active monitors used in a nearfield setup.

JLM - Which 2-way active monitors are you using?

[jimdgoulding]

JLM, I believe that the floor standing MBL's are true omni's



and that there have been others.

[Quiet Earth]

My listen distance from wall to wall is only 11.5 feet, my speakers are about 10 inches from the wall. i have tried pulinng them out like 3 feet and in allhonesty they sounded acward, it has no depth.

Im still seeking a speaker that can offer a large soundstage that can fit in a small room.

The Audio Note J would be perfect for your room. These sound great placed about a foot away from the rear wall, with each speaker nearly touching its respective side wall, and with the pair toed in to cross just in front of your lap. The soundstage is tall and wide, and yes you can stand up or move around a bit and the image stays where it is. There is depth, but you don't feel like you are being all wrapped up in it. Bass and dynamics are surprisingly good for such a pedestrian looking two-way "box". No sub required.

You should be able to get good results with most wide baffle two ways of appropriate size for your room, but the J would be awesome in a small room like yours. Try using the side walls as your anchor.

[Randy]

I'm one of a very small number of people who own a pair of GR Research's omnidirectional O-3's. Despite their great sound, Danny says they are difficult to sell because the design is unusual. Frankly, if Danny didn't design this speaker, I would have no interest in them whatsoever. Drivers mounted on top of speakers are kinda freaky, IMO. They are used in a 13' x 20' x 8' room along the short wall with about three feet from the side and back walls. More space would be ideal, but these speakers replaced a pair of VMPS floor standers and easily outperformed them. According to Danny, they sound virtually identical to his open baffle designs that use the same drivers (except for the bass, of course).     

Virtue is now selling a Danny Richie designed stand mounted omni of sorts. Go to the Virtue Audio circle site to check them out.

[Early B.]

Virtue is now selling a Danny Richie designed stand mounted omni of sorts. Go to the Virtue Audio circle site to check them out.

Hmmmm.... interesting.

[TheChairGuy]

I own Lineaums Towers....with 360 degree Lineaum tweeter atop the short 32" box.

They sound great - have dusted off several (much) higher priced spread over the years - but, they need to be WELL away from the wall to breathe and sound their best.  My wife hates 'em despite them being small footprint and mostly unobtrusive except for the fact that they're not flush with the wall to sound their best.



So, I really think it's mostly about commercial viability: most women are going to hate omni's due to spacing constraints, they look a tad weird with a HF emitter atop the enclosure, and then there is all manner of room considerations to wade thru (windows, in particular, in back of omni speakers bounce all manner of stray sound about)

It's hard enough to be successful selling speakers - better to provide front firing speakers that have 'universal' appeal.

John

[Early B.]

So, I really think it's mostly about commercial viability: most women are going to hate omni's due to spacing constraints,...

It's hard enough to be successful selling speakers - better to provide front firing speakers that have 'universal' appeal.

Agreed. My wife approves of my omnis because of its small footprint, but more importantly, the walnut baffle blends well with the room's decor.

[JLM]

JLM - Which 2-way active monitors are you using?

I've heard several (frankly the professionals have always left me very cold and soulless), but I keep looking.  One that is quite intriguing is the Munro Egg 150 ($2600/pair, 45-20,000 Hz, 2-way, 18 inches tall).  They are housed in a thoroughly designed resin ported egg shaped cabinets that use external chip amps and are noted for clarity, quality bass, superior imaging, and being very musical.  Unfortunately the closest for me to audition are a 4 hour drive away.

I currently run old I. M. Fried Model A's that I scored from a liquidation sale in the living room (casual listening system), Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 in the under utilized 5.1 family system, and Bob Brines' Fostex F200A based MLTL single driver designs in the main system (sorry can't keep up with the renaming of his speakers).  Of course a single driver design is active by default.

The concepts behind active designs are very cool.

[JLM]

JLM, I believe that the floor standing MBL's are true omni's



and that there have been others.

Yes, those would be close.  But they aren't radiating straight up or down.  And I'm not sure how uniform the distribution of various frequencies would be.

[ricardojoa]

Then you are barking up the wrong tree, IMO. Omni/dipole/etc need space! A small room will make acoustic problems worse, I think in a small room listening close to the speakers directionality may be a better solution. If you are looking for a good soundstage check out the Omega speakers with the 4.5" driver. With the right amp, they completely disappear and work great in small rooms/nearfield.

I have heard omega speakers before but forgot which model, but ibelieve it was one with small driver, paired with some tube 300b amp and they sounded a little shouty. I can definetly give a next try.

[JerryLove]

Yes, those would be close.  But they aren't radiating straight up or down.  And I'm not sure how uniform the distribution of various frequencies would be.

A great percentage of the frequencies likely are radiating straight up.

It's worth noting that actual music sources (a person playing a violin in your living room) are not omnipolar.

If you did have an omnipolar source: get it away from the floor and ceiling the same way you get it away from the walls.

[ricardojoa]

So are conventional box front firing the only option for small room?
Is does seems like omni and OB designs benefit from pulling the speaker away from the wall.
My speaker actually do a great job in the soundstage department. I think i just want more of it.

[DaveC113]

I have heard omega speakers before but forgot which model, but ibelieve it was one with small driver, paired with some tube 300b amp and they sounded a little shouty. I can definetly give a next try.

The older drivers could seem that way at higher volumes. The new drivers are better balanced and will not be shouty at all.