[medium jim]

I need each and everyone to step up and tell me what are the Bass mistakes, the things that will make the bass in your system sound less than optimal.  It can be anything from A to Z.

Jim

[brooklyn]

Your not going to want to hear this but I generally don't like the way a subwoofer sounds in most systems especially with planners. I once tried to integrate an REL 201Q sub to a pair of Von Schweikert VR-1s and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get it to sound right but I also didn't have any bass traps at the time and still don't, I'm not sure it would have made a difference.

I might be sensitized somehow to the bass integration or lack there of. The best bass for me is no subwoofer. 

[SoCalWJS]

Placement is a biggie for me. At first I placed it smack in the corner of the room - it was convenient and it had a lot of output. But I quickly noticed that the quality was very poor. I moved it out, back and forth, angled it, and finally reached a good compromise. Getting it off the ground helped too.

It's something that I notice at somebody else's house who I visit and stay with for a few days at a time - his wife isn't quite as accomodating as mine with respect to these things. I call his sub (same model as my first one) a one note wonder - it seems like a bunch of bass notes in the same range sound the same due to reinforcement of one frequency due to the proximity to the walls. If they leave for awhile, I immediately move the sub a foot or two further away from the walls - at least there is some differentiation. He always looks at me sideways when he gets back, and I slide it back to it's normal location. 

[alch3my]

I need each and everyone to step up and tell me what are the Bass mistakes, the things that will make the bass in your system sound less than optimal.  It can be anything from A to Z.

Jim

Lack of bass traps and room treatment. Having bass traps made the most difference in my room in smoothing out the low frequency response.

[DTB300]

• Bad Placement - speaker and listener
• No Bass Trap Treatments
• No Bass EQ
• Volume too loud - Cutoff Too High
• etc. etc. etc.

[jtwrace]

< 4-5 subs

[Quiet Earth]

Mistakes. Here are a few things I changed to improve my bass experience :

1. I abandoned the Cardas philosophy or what I used to know as pulling the speakers out into the room to avoid the side and rear walls. Now, I embrace the rear and side walls and I use them to compliment the output of the speakers. Bass sounds so much better to me this way, especially mid-bass weight and texture which is the foundation of so many instruments.  Imaging is very good too, but the event unfolds in front of me rather than engulfing me.

2. Expectations. I reduced my expectation that every song, and every album is going to have some sort of subterranean bass candy going on. Good things come to those who wait. When it happens, it will happen. Don't make yourself crazy.

3. Getting the right volume level. I increased my awareness that I need to turn up the volume now and again to hear the album as the artist/producer intended. It seems that as I get my system to be more and more resolving, it becomes easier to listen at lower volume levels and still hear everything. It becomes habit forming to turn it up and it's still kind of quiet.  This isn't really fair for evaluating bass. So, I will break out the SPL meter, and get those peaks up into the mid 80s so I can hear what the mastering guy heard before he sent the recording off to final production. The thought of adding a sub usually goes away when I crank it up a bit.

4. Get the very best source components you can afford. It seems speakers and amps get all the attention. Terrible mistake.

[Guidof]

#1 mistake: Listening for the bass when fine tuning crossover and gain.

I now listen for the point at which I can perceive an increased three-dimensionality in the sound stage. That is also the point where the sub is well integrated.

This for stereo music, not HT. Works if main speakers are full range to begin with and need little sub reinforcement to produce correct timbres and tonal balance.

In other words, the best sub is the sub that's not heard . . . Until one turns it (or them) off.

Guido F.

[paul canady]

Having a subwoofer on carpet with wood floors and a crawl space. The vibrations create certain frequencies that blend into the music making it unnatural. Raising the subwoofer off the floor even a few more inches plus decoupling really helps with this. So the mistake would be bad room acoustics. Guys that have a very well treated and solid room are far ahead.
   

[Rclark]

Trying to integrate large, powerful subs with small satellites or speakers with very little bass output.

[lowtech]

Believing that "bass traps" or having more than two "sub woofers" is required in a listening room.

[PDR]

Believing that "bass traps" or having more than two "sub woofers" is a detriment in a listening room.
 

[Rclark]

Yeah PDR I'm with you, I'd love to see the measurements from these guys who claim to not need any treatment. It's always a lot of rhetoric but never any substance versus the multiple subs/room treatment, proven, shown data.

...And for the record, It's not "2 subs", The strongest information we have so far is that 3 or 4 subs is where you truly begin to get where you want to go.

[JohnR]

Yeah PDR I'm with you, I'd love to see the measurements from these guys who claim to not need any treatment. It's always a lot of rhetoric but never any substance versus the multiple subs/room treatment, proven, shown data.

...And for the record, It's not "2 subs", The strongest information we have so far is that 3 or 4 subs is where you truly begin to get where you want to go.

And how many subs do you have? Where's your data?

 

[lowtech]

Here are measurements to support my assertions.  Top chart is averaged measured response from my listening chair of two stereo woofers in a sealed enclosure.  Bottom is the same woofers in a dipole configuration (W-Frame) placed in the same locations.  For both measurements, room was lightly treated identically (to achieve RT60 of 300 ms; no bass traps).



Now, let's see some measurements from those who contradict (or mock) me.   

[lowtech]

post removed.

[bpape]

Frequency response is only 1/3 of the issue.  Overall balanced decay times and properly addressing phase related boundary cancellations/reinforcements in the midbass through lower mids are also critical elements to be addressed. 

Also, RT60 is only a valid measure in large space acoustics where one actually tries to propagate the bass waves rather than controlling them in small (residential) spaces.

Bryan

[Rclark]

And how many subs do you have? Where's your data?

 

It's coming. Almost there now. Just going off what's out there. Right now I'm not sure what my sub equivalancy is, apparently the sub I have produces a sperical wave.

OB subs lowtech, ah, very sneaky. Nice graphs.

[studiotech]

Multiple subs might be great for smoothing out room response, but if so many people have a difficult time properly integrating ONE sub, 2-3 more is gonna most likely result in garbage sound with flatter response. That sounds like fun, doesn't it?  In my experience, most people cross subs too high and set them too loud, hence the attention they call to themselves.  Also, simple phase adjustment is many times not enough to achieve seamless integration.  Thank you DSP and delay.  Good placement and measurements are generally necessary too.

I'll stick with my stereo subs placed somewhere near the mains thanks.

[JohnR]

Right now I'm not sure what my sub equivalancy is, apparently the sub I have produces a sperical wave.

Um, all subs produce a spherical wave - unless they're horns, dipole/OB, or cardioid.