[Red Dragon Audio]

Regarding Vandersteen speakers:

I have to respectfully disagree with audioengr about these speakers sounding compressed yet I have to agree at the same time; here is why:

I just recently auditioned both the 3A's and 2CE's at ArisAudio in SLC, UT.  When I first walked in there, Scott was playing some 'best of Sarah Vaughn' and it was just plain sweet music goodness!  Right there I wanted them.  Though don't anyone go telling Scott that or he'll get ideas I am in the market for 3A's!    I was already impressed but of course that was the 3A's run with a 2WQ sub and about $12k in upward electronics.  So it had to sound good right?

Well I was there to listen to the 2CE's because they fell more into my budget and were competitively priced with my 'used' de capos.  I also had him turn off the sub as that wouldn't work with my Panny XR45.

So Scott had to get out the stands and set everything up which took a while.  We just placed the 2CE's in front of the 3A's and away we went.

Unimpressive. Compressed. Dull. Imaged pretty great and they dissappeared but just plain jane uninvolving. (of course I didn't voice that with Scott right there b/c I was afraid I was jumping to conclusions). What happened?  I couldn't figure it out as we hadn't changed the electonics and the only major difference was that the sub was turned off (huge I know but I wasn't listening for bass response).  Are the 3A's just that much better of a speaker to sound so much better?

I didn't figure it out until I got out of the main listeing chair and sat down in the couch just to the side and behind the main seat.

Voila!

Music was back, albeit the imaging was off center of course but things sounded right again.  So I got back in the driver's seat thinking things must have warmed up or something from having been turned off for over an half hour during 2CE's setup.  BUT  It still sounded bad...so I took all of the puny computing power in my head and figured;

the couch is much lower...

so if I hunch down in the main listening chair...

it should sound better...
 
BINGO.

I am 6'3" tall and I am long waisted so when I sit down I am seated much higher than Scott (he owns arisaudio if you didn't get that from my random writing earlier).   So Scott placed them where he got good sound to his ears but me sitting a good 4-5" higher than him changed things dramatically for me in terms of sound.

The time alignment, 1st order nature of the Vandy's, from what I experienced, is super sensitive to ear height.  So really what I needed was a shorter chair, or to just tilt the 2CE's back more.  Since the 3A's are taller speakers, I didn't experience that problem when I first got there.

After hunching down in the chair a bit, things opened up, clarity and detail came back and life was in the speaker.  This was my first time really experiencing one of those events when a few inches in audio made such a drastic change.

I still own my DC's as I moved into a new apartment with a very large front room for me (12' wide by 20+ feet deep).  This helped tremendously with my current setup and didn't leave me wanting for anything from my DC's.  Though I am sure I would be very happy with a pair of 2CE's I just don't want the hassle of getting new speakers that might only be a side step at this point in time.

anyway... again...

I just wanted to add my 2cents on the Vandy speakers as I feel they are a very good choice but finicky when it comes to setup.

I am going back to Aris Audio to listen to the 2CE's with my Panny XR45.  I will be up there in the next week or two so I will have to let you know how it goes.

Cheers!

[PLMONROE]

Thats why Vandersteens have to be tilted up! BTW, the 3A Signatures with 2wq subwooofer really give the top of the line 5A's MAJOR competition at a fraction of the cost

Paul

[Jay S]

Dave,

Any updates on your modded Panny?  What do you think of the midrange?  How full is it?  Would you characterize it as being very neutral or does it has some tubey bloom to it?  I'm sure it is very smooth.  

Thanks,

- Jay

[jcoat007]

Thats why Vandersteens have to be tilted up! BTW, the 3A Signatures with 2wq subwooofer really give the top of the line 5A's MAJOR competition at a fraction of the cost

Paul

I think it is interesting to note that Shane Buettner who writes for TAS has the 3A Sig's and dual 2Wq subs.  In issue 145 he reviewed the Vandy 5A's and thought that the 3A Sig/2Wq combo sounded broken compared to the 5A's.  

I also have the 3A Sig's and dual 2Wq's.  The speakers are so dependent on proper placement and tilt back.  I have been messing with them for 2 years and continue to move them around to try to find that perfect spot.  I keep running into better placement just by trial and error which is not easy because of their size/weight and large spikes.  I wish there was a magic formula for this process, but each room has it's own issues.

[dave_c]

Dave,

Any updates on your modded Panny?  What do you think of the midrange?  How full is it?  Would you characterize it as being very neutral or does it has some tubey bloom to it?  I'm sure it is very smooth.  

Thanks,

- Jay

Sorry Jay,  I've been out of the loop for a while.  Was out travelling for a month.  I really haven't had a chance to listen for a long time.  I will say that  its neutral.  No tubey bloom at all.  Its just clean and pure all the way.

[Jay S]

Thanks for the reply.  I'm really keeping my eye on modded digital receivers...

[dave_c]

The thing that I like most (aside from the sound of course) is the convinience of the receivers.  There's a lot to be said about not having to use an extra set of IC's and PC. One digital cable, one power cord and one set of speaker cables.  I think the simplicity has a lot to do with the appeal for me.

[audioengr]

My plan is to purchase a couple of the Panasonic SA-XR70's when they are available and mod these.  I expect the mods to be similar to those that I did for Daves XR45.  This one I will put on my webpage.  I also plan to add a USB interface to it so that all you need is a computer, speakers and the XR70 to make beautiful music.

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Steve,
Have you started any work on the new XR50 or XR70 ?

[audioengr]

Steve,
Have you started any work on the new XR50 or XR70 ?

Received a XR70 and I just got the schematics from Panasonic.  The unit is at a local customers house, but when he takes a trip in a couple of weeks, I will have it again to do the mods.  He could not wait and wanted to watch movies... In his home theater system it is sounding excellent on movies, even before mods.  On CD's it is not as good.

Steve N.

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Thanks for the update,
Have you considered building a power conditioner product ?
I am having tremendous positive effect with a Furman Power Factor Pro and a balanced power conditioner. Actually, the balanced power conditioner to the Furman via an Empirical Audio Magnum power cord, made quite a difference. Much more effect than having the cord  on Panny XR50. The Panny now sounds 'liquid'. I have some CD which are engineered using tube electronics either during the recording or during playback on LP and then converted to CD. Now I feel I am listening to a tube setup.

So how about building a powerful power factor correction device ? This can be used in conjunction with a balanced transformer.

[audioengr]

Thanks for the update,
Have you considered building a power conditioner product ?
I am having tremendous positive effect with a Furman Power Factor Pro and a balanced power conditioner. Actually, the balanced power conditioner to the Furman via an Empirical Audio Magnum power cord, made quite a difference. Much more effect than having the cord  on Panny XR50. The Panny now sounds 'liquid'. I have some CD which are engineered using tube electronics either during the recording or during playback on LP and t ...

If I live to be 100, I will still not have the time for all of these pet projects.  I am trying still to ramp-up my USB-to-S/PDIF converters and finish the Airport Express mods, not to mention tweaks to JC-1 monoblocs and Parasound 3500 as well as a preamp design that I am prototyping.....  AAAGH

[brj]

Steve, when you add the USB interface, do you sacrifice the one of the optical inputs?

I'll be curious to hear people's impressions of the modded XR70 (with USB input) paired with the WIFI Off-Ramp.  That sounds like a really potent combination.  Keep us posted!

Thanks!

Edit:  Actually, now that I think about it, could the modified Airport Express - the basis for your WIFI Off-Ramp - simply be added into the Panny itself?  

This would eliminate some work on the two, especially if the Panny power supply has enough juice left for the AE.  Thoughts?

[audioengr]

Steve, when you add the USB interface, do you sacrifice the one of the optical inputs?

Yes

I'll be curious to hear people's impressions of the modded XR70 (with USB input) paired with the WIFI Off-Ramp.  That sounds like a really potent combination.  Keep us posted!

Thanks!


Edit:  Actually, now that I think about it, could the modified Airport Express - the basis for your WIFI Off-Ramp - simply be added into the Panny itself?  

Possible.  The antenna requires that it be outside the metal box

This would eliminate some work on the two, especially if the Panny power supply has enough juice left for the AE.  Thoughts?

The AE is powered off the line cord, so this is not a concern.

Steve N.

[brj]

Hi Steve.

I figured I'd check back and see how the SA-XR70 mods were going.... did your pilot customer get his unit yet, and has he provided any feedback?

Are you close to making this mod generally available?

Thanks!

[audioengr]

Hi Steve.

I figured I'd check back and see how the SA-XR70 mods were going.... did your pilot customer get his unit yet, and has he provided any feedback?

Are you close to making this mod generally available?

Thanks!

My customer has dropped-off the XR-70.  It is queued-up after about 5 more mods.

Steve N.