[ajzepp]

Hey guys....so vinyl is the next frontier for me. I grew up as cassette tapes were taking over, and I sort of missed out on establishing a love for vinyl....the idea of going to the record store and bringing home a new album from your favorite band, not for just a track or two but to experience the album as a whole....I'm drawn to that, and it's driving me right into a vinyl rig.

I'm only now starting the research phase and I've pretty much narrowed my table list to a few contenders, with the Rega RP1 being the pack leader. I'm taking Grado's advice and keeping an eye out for some tables on craigs list, as well, just for fun. But here's my question: Which part of the vinyl rig is most responsible for the final sound? Would a budget table with an above average cartridge be superior to a more expensive table and a stock cartridge? Does all this matter little if the phono preamp sucks? What have you guys found makes the biggest impact on a quality budget rig? And remember, I'm a noob, so speak slowly! haha

[jarcher]

I got back into vinyl this year & ended up buying 4 (!) record players & associated equipment.  In my opinion and experience, you've got to balance the budget between all the items you mentioned : mainly cartridge / table / pre-amp.  A crappy pre-amp is not going to reproduce all the glory of a fancy cartridge.  A crumby table is going to introduce it's own problems and mask the benefits of a great cartridge.  A mediocre cartridge is gonna sound mediocre no matter how great everything else is.

When I started out I might have been of the spend-on-the-cartridge school, but even a used high-end preamp showed me how much I was missing.  And a better table just had a much lower noise floor, better bass, and because of the better arm & cabling, just let so much more of the info through.

Will be interesting to hear what other folks with more experience have to say........

P.s. In a super budget entry level TT, I think the Pro-ject Debut Carbon is the one to beat (over the RP1).  Better carbon fiber tone arm & better cartridge in the 2M Red.  Plinth is nothing fantastic though, but at $400 compromises need to be made somewhere.

[ajzepp]

Thanks man, great response....I've had that Pro-ject table on my short list, as well....haven't ruled it out by any means.

The preamp I've been eyeballing is the Musical Fidelity V-LPS. A buddy of mine just picked up their headamp and he's been raving about the build quality and performance. I'm thinking this might be a great entrly level vinyl preamp for someone in my position. All the reviews have been stellar, as well.

Why do you like the pro-ject table over the RP1?

[jarcher]

The MF is a natural choice for an entry level phono preamp.  I'd also consider the Parasound zphono preamp at $200 retail.  If your budget is a little higher, a used Jolida JD9 tube phono preamp or Soundsmith MMP3 if you can find them. 

The carbon debut seems like the better table in every respect : better carbon fiber tone arm, better cartridge (Ortofon 2M red vs Ortofon OM5e), better heavier platter, and standard RCA plugs (you think interconnects make a difference : it's even more so with the tiny signal on a turntable).  Oh - and $50 cheaper ($400 vs $450). What's not to like?

[Douger]

Hi AJ,
I have one of the MF V-LPS units, be sure to buy the Pyramid Model PS-3KX power supply and connecting cable from Amazon, I paid under $30 for those. They ramp up the performance very nicely. I am not sure what to recommend regarding new basic tt's...
Refer to AVA here on AC to get instructions to damp a Grado Gold cart with silicone, it turns out to be a killer for under $250!
Regards,
Doug

[orientalexpress]

For Phono pre amp, Vista audio , nothing come close for the money.also great customer service.



Lapsan

[Elizabeth]

""What makes the most difference""
Answer: "" used vinyl stores in your area. ""
Find out what sort of vinyl is available in your own area.
Say you live out in the country, and the nearest towns have zero used or new vinyl.
Then you are stuck using the internet. And it will cost much more to satisfy your licorice lust.

Take me: I have five good used and new LP stores in easy (half hour or less) driving distance. I buy mostly used, so I can browse various used places all around town.
I have 6,000 LPs, All bought in the last fifteen years, nearly all locally, used.
Wonderful.
I probably never would have bothered to get into vinyl without a bunch of local sources.

So that is MY advice. Check out where you can buy LPs.. FIRST.

[SteveFord]

Think of it like speakers: buy good ones and then worry about the other stuff.
That would mean turntable/arm first and then comes the cartridge, phono stage and record cleaning machine later.
Buy a turntable that you won't plan on upgrading because you won't need to.
You can always play around with the cartridges and phono stages as time goes on.
Prepare to be hooked!

[ajzepp]

Thanks guys, all the feedback is very much appreciated!!

[vortrex]

Table/arm is more important than cart.

[ajzepp]

Do you guys have any more suggestions for tables? My concern buying used is that I'm not able to discern quality, nor would I have any idea what would be busted, worn out, or need replacement if I bought one used. As a newb, I have a higher comfort level with a new table, even if I just start with a cheapo in order to get my feet wet.

[vortrex]

What's your budget?

[ajzepp]

What's your budget?

Well, I'd like to keep the table under five bills....I'd go higher, but i'm just not sure where this will end up....I may end up loving it and going nuts with upgrades, or it may be that the convenience of digital will take over again and the table will just collect dust. So five bills is the comfort level for now, I'd say. So far I've had the RP1, the Pro-ject Debut Carbon, the Music Hall 2.2, and the Denon 300 suggested....apparently the Denon is a good value IF you upgrade the cartridge from the get-go.

[jimdgoulding]

Aj, I think you must add a decent record cleaning machine particularly for used records.  The Spin Clean is a very affordable and very effective product.  I think you should add that to your list.  I'm gonna let others advise you about tables and arms.  Come back here for info on good sources for LP's.  Come back here for cartridge and arm set up knowledge.  What you are embarking to do will be very engaging and rewarding for you.  I believe I can promise you that.   

[ajzepp]

Thanks Jim, will certainly add that to my list. I really think you're right about this being a rewarding path....I love the sound of a good analog rig.

[TONEPUB]

I think regardless of budget, your analog front end acts together as a system.  Though I tend to see the table and arm as being the most significant.
No matter what you purchase, if possible try and master the art of setup.  Even a modest table, properly set up will deliver great results.

Have fun on the journey...

[ajzepp]

I think regardless of budget, your analog front end acts together as a system.  Though I tend to see the table and arm as being the most significant.
No matter what you purchase, if possible try and master the art of setup.  Even a modest table, properly set up will deliver great results.

Have fun on the journey...

Thanks...I"m already really enjoying learning about some aspects of setup....been watching a few videos on youtube. The Pro-ject Debut that jarcher suggested seems to be very newb-friendly. The trackign weight seems pretty straight forward to set, so I just need to learn more about anti-skate and the cartridge alignment process. The cart on the Pro-ject table comes pre-installed and aligned, so that's a plus. This does seem to be a very well-regarded table for beginners.

I likely won't pull the trigger until closer to the Christmas holiday, so have some time to learn more.

[toocool4]

I think you cannot go wrong with a Rega or a Project turntable, they are just good value for money.

Like TONEPUB said, setup is key. A high-end table badly setup will perform less than a middle of road table setup correctly.

[neobop]

I likely won't pull the trigger until closer to the Christmas holiday, so have some time to learn more.

Here is an ongoing thread you might find of interest:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1351172109&&&/What-turntable-$500-or-less-

neo

[Wayner]

There are a couple of routes you can take here, used being the other one. Back to the new stuff, your budget is too thin. The Rega RP1 is a good value, but does have one shortfall, that being a dial-in VTF (vertical tracking force), which means if you ever want to try another cartridge, other then the one it came with (low level Ortofon), you will need a scale. The Project Debut is a bit cheezy in build quality. Dust cover hinges are made of plastic and probably will break, the tonearm is not particularly wonderful, and I don't recall adjustable VTA. The platter is some plastic composite stuff. However, even with their draw backs, they are in your budget.

For preamps, I would add to the list the Graham Slee Amp1 ($200). So for $620 you can get the Graham Slee pre, the Rega RP1 (with provided Ortopon cartridge) and a VTF scale (Shure, Deal extreme). Forget the record cleaning machine, you can wash your records in the laundry sink.

If you go used, (and there certainly can be problems with this) you could get a Technics SL-Q2 for about $100 (it's a DD table with a great arm, semi-automatic). For $175, you could buy an Audio Technica AT440MLa cartridge (a best buy, also recommended by Absolute Sound), and the Graham Slee pre would put that price at about $500.

Wayner