[jarcher]

Was over at a big box retailer today & all the PCs were sporting Windows 8.  What a mess - honestly. Just a lot of images w/ no apparent rhyme or reason to the organization.  And if you did click or touch something, once you found it, there was no obvious way to get out of itor back to the "main menu".  I must really be missing something here.  Even OSX seems way much more like the Windows interface that I remember than this thing.  I'd google up the scuttlebutt on Windows 8, but honestly there seem to be much better things to do than waste that time.

If the OP is still with us : getting anything but Windows 8 if your worried about a learning curve!

[Rclark]

That's not true, I could say the same thing if I tried using OSX tommorrow. There would be a learning curve, and I'd probably hate what I was looking at. FWIW I haven't used Win 8 yet, but it seems to be an extension of what they were doing with OS7 mobile, at least the desktop looks similar, and which I found to be superior to the iPhone. I was upgrading from my TREO, and had the choice of Android, iPhone, or Windows phone, and the Windows OS was much simpler to use and less cluttered, IMO. It isn't just a square cluster of icons on a screen, it's all organic and useful.

I think that if Win 8 is as good as 7 was, PC and mobile, they may begin making inroads once again. Hey look at it this way, you won't have to pay as much as you would for an Apple. I highly suggest ASUS, they make ridiculously great hardware.

[dragoonxp20]

Was over at a big box retailer today & all the PCs were sporting Windows 8.  What a mess - honestly. Just a lot of images w/ no apparent rhyme or reason to the organization.  And if you did click or touch something, once you found it, there was no obvious way to get out of itor back to the "main menu".  I must really be missing something here.  Even OSX seems way much more like the Windows interface that I remember than this thing.  I'd google up the scuttlebutt on Windows 8, but honestly there seem to be much better things to do than waste that time.

If the OP is still with us : getting anything but Windows 8 if your worried about a learning curve!

I agree with your opinion of Windows 8. I don't understand the point of the new home screen except for touchscreen computers and tablets. I guess Microsoft was thinking that they could simplify the OS for people normally only use less than 10 programs and want it to be more streamlined. However, Windows 8 seems to work exactly like the old windows when you press a certain button on the new home screen. Seems like just a hassle to me.

That said, I thoroughly enjoy Windows 7, but I've been using Windows my whole life. Can't switch to Apple stuff because I'm a gamer.

[JohnR]

My question is why do Apple and Microsoft feel it necessary to imitate features of their phones in their desktop OS?

[JLM]

My question is why do Apple and Microsoft feel it necessary to imitate features of their phones in their desktop OS?

Two reasons:

So non-IT guys can use them.  The "rest of us" just want to make the damn thing work.  Simpler the better.  A hundred years from now the IT guys will have the user interface perfected (like the basic automotive driver controls).

So non-IT guys will be brand loyal by providing a consistant user interface.  You IT guys are handy to have around but so clueless some times (and I'm an engineer  ).

[skunark]

Appears Windows 8 will arrive without the ability to play DVDs and Blu-rays.   Even if you upgrade from Windows 7. 

Microsoft will sell the codecs for DVDs starting next year, Windows Media Center, if you register today you can download them for free. 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs

To play a blu-ray you will have to use 3rd party applications, which i'm sure comes with the blu-ray player.

Not a big deal for as I don't play DVDs or Blu-rays in any of my computers and guessing with Micorsoft's direction most folks don't either.

[Doublej]

My question is why do Apple and Microsoft feel it necessary to imitate features of their phones in their desktop OS?

Windows 8 on a convertible Ultrabook is exactly what corporate customers want. One device that can operate as a tablet and a computer, 100% display compatibility of MS Office documents and ability to edit MS office and every other application that they want to run.

When I am at my desk I'll plug it into a keyboard,mouse, monitor. In meetings I'll use it as a tablet. In collaborative working sessions, I'll use it as a laptop and project onto a big screen.

Similar apps/UI as my Windows 8 phone and I don't need to learn anything new. Microsoft could hit a grand slam with this if they execute well.

[ricko01]

Well...

I use a quite a few old "legacy" 32bit windows apps and have to use 32bit XP (as these wont run on 64bit windows even with an the 32bit emulator)

In terms of your current problem, you can stall the upgrade to a new OS by looking for current state 64bit PC's that support XP.

That means checking the manufactures web site for the drivers you need (not too much of a techie thing).

I use a current generation Lenovo laptop and also an "all in one" PC as a running "hot" backup for the laptop,  both of which are 64bit but these run 32bit XP fine.

It will mean that in 5-6 years time when/if I need to move on that I will have an issue with my  32bit windows apps but at least I have delayed the issue.

Peter

[JohnR]

So non-IT guys will be brand loyal by providing a consistant user interface.

This is contradictory. How on Earth is changing the interface "consistent"? I do find it hard to believe that desktop sales are driven by phone sales. Of course, if it is true, the "IT guys" will find somewhere else to go, but I've never heard it suggested that the WIMP interface was designed for "IT guys."

 

[JLM]

This is contradictory. How on Earth is changing the interface "consistent"? I do find it hard to believe that desktop sales are driven by phone sales. Of course, if it is true, the "IT guys" will find somewhere else to go, but I've never heard it suggested that the WIMP interface was designed for "IT guys."

 

Dunno what "WIMP" (I'm on foreign soil in this circle), but personal/home devices are designed for the multitudes, not "IT guys".  Yes the ever changing interfaces drives me (everyone?) crazy.  Like I stated above, eventually a standard will be developed (like a steering wheel/foot pedal controls for cars).  Until then users (the multitudes, not the "IT guys") will tend to stay brand loyal to stay consistant within the brand and therefore reduce everyday confusion as the developers compete.  Frankly for just surfing, spreadsheets, and word processing Windows 7 and Apple looks/acts very similar to me.  And like most users I try to avoid getting "behind the scenes" to setup/fix something.

[JohnR]

Hi JLM, I didn't mean to be contentious, but I don't hold any hope that there will ever be a real standard. For nearly 20 (?) years the WIMP paradigm has prevailed for desktop computing, despite its flaws. WIMP = "Window Icon Menus Pointer". As you suggest with your comment about the similarity of Apple and MS operating systems, it's probably the closest thing we've ever had to a standard for desktop computing UIs, and I think it's actually not that bad. But it looks like that has been chucked out now, with the excuse that users find the phone interface better, etc.

Perhaps it's true that you get used to one thing, and then everything else is "wrong." But look at the fiasco with Apple's "auto-save/version" starting with its Lion OS. An "IT guy" knows what versioning is, but seriously, this is just wrong. I've lost files because of this, in the name of making the UI more phone-like.

Enh.

[whell]

My question is why do Apple and Microsoft feel it necessary to imitate features of their phones in their desktop OS?

Because that's the direction that the market is moving.  Estimates suggest that individuals will be using smart-phones and tablets for most of their computing needs in the very near future.

[jtwrace]

Estimates suggest that individuals will be using smart-phones and tablets for most of their computing needs in the very near future.

Not me!

[JohnR]

Because that's the direction that the market is moving.  Estimates suggest that individuals will be using smart-phones and tablets for most of their computing needs in the very near future.

Suppose that is true. Why does that mean that desktops need to be made to behave the same?

[Don_S]

I agree. Personally I don't understand touch-screen desktops.  My arms are too darn short.    When I am comfortable in my chair and using the keyboard and mouse I can't reach my monitor.

I do understand touch-screens for laptops and tablets where the user is in closer proximity to the screen. Other than that touch-screen desktops are just designed to make us feel like we are on NCIS-Los Angeles where one magic swipe makes everything huge, clear, and catches the bad guys. 

Unfortunately I think it is safe to assume that touch-screen featuress being attractive on laptops and tablets will ensure that they will become the standard for desktops as well.

Suppose that is true. Why does that mean that desktops need to be made to behave the same?

[WGH]

A few years ago I helped a friend unclog his computer from all the malware that his kids installed, this was way before touch screens but his monitor screen was still this big greasy, smeary mess. I can't imagine what a touch screen monitor would look like... well maybe I can and it is nothing I would want to touch. I can imagine flu epidemics spreading like wildfire throughout the school system and the work place.

I suppose screens are easier to clean than keyboards, but still everyone will want to touch it until the newness wears off.

Wayne

[jarcher]

Suppose that is true. Why does that mean that desktops need to be made to behave the same?

Agreed - touch screens make sense, perhaps even mandatory, for small portable electronics for all the expected reasons (portability / reduce cost & complexity, fit a bigger screen, etc etc).  But when it comes to a desktop, unless for very basic tasks (think a digital photoframe, etc), I'm not sure I feel the advantages.  The whole idea of running your hands across a large screen seems more laborious - not to mention unhygienic if your constantly running fingers over the thing - as WGH suggested in graphic detail.

I find it interesting that in their pursuit to come up with new interfaces, recently it seems some companies are going for the more laborious.  E.g. gesture-based interfaces.  It might entertain hyper active kids in front of a game console, or look cool to see Tom Cruise in some holographic deck moving his hands around in some Sci-Fi movie, but can you imagine an office full of people flailing their arms about like a Power Rangers episode?

Seems to me sight & sound are the most natural interfaces for humans.  Would be nice if they could come up w/ a "mental" mouse - i.e basic motion / click / cursor direction.  Combine that w/ voice controls & you'd be all set with the interface of the future.  I remember experiments with the former - took some training, but it was doable.  Guess I'm just a lazy couch potato! 

[skunark]

Agreed - touch screens make sense, perhaps even mandatory, for small portable electronics for all the expected reasons (portability / reduce cost & complexity, fit a bigger screen, etc etc).  But when it comes to a desktop, unless for very basic tasks (think a digital photoframe, etc), I'm not sure I feel the advantages.  The whole idea of running your hands across a large screen seems more laborious - not to mention unhygienic if your constantly running fingers over the thing - as WGH suggested in graphic detail.

Not sure how a keyboard would be any cleaner.   

The same concerns noted here for touchscreens were said back when touchpads were introduced and even when the mouse was introduced.     Only interesting part is that you aren't being forced to use the touchscreens....yet.

[jarcher]

I should let it die   , but will take another parting shot at Windows 8 : seems I'm not alone about detesting Window 8's confusing / noisy / non-removable "start-up" tile / page thingy :

http://news.yahoo.com/windows-8-terrible-says-usability-expert-jakob-nielsen-174300612.html

Thanks to one of the previous poster that said you could - if you could find it - press some icon to get to the regular desktop view.  Frankly I didn't even make it this far when I tried to operate Windows 8 computers at a big box store.  And that you don't even have the option to defeat this start-up screen just because MS wants to ram this "universal" entry screen across tablets / PC's / etc.......

God help us if they make the "touch" part mandatory as well : I don't want to be forced to rub my hands across the screen, thank you very much.  A keyboard or mouse if it gets grubby beyond cleaning can be easily and cheaply tossed an replaced : a touch screen not to so much.

[JohnR]

Nielsen's article: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html