[Don_S]

Help,  I don't want to start a war here.  I have no agenda other than picking out a new computer.  I am not a techie and feel lost with the only options I see available to me.

My Dell XP desktop is giving me warnings of "high memory usage" and "high CPU usage".  I have upgraded memory to the max 3GB.  The computer is slow and I know XP will someday be abandoned by MSFT. Computer is 6.5 years old.  Not ancient but nearing its tech life expectancy.

In my searching I have found out that W7 would be a learning curve for me.  So would Apple and W8.  I would like to decide what to do in time for the Frantic Friday and Manic Monday sales less than two weeks away.

What to do, what to do?  My concerns are many Microsoft Word documents as well as Open Office. I also have many years worth of Turbo Tax software and completed tax forms. What will Apple do with those?  In the future will I have to purchase a different (more expensive) version of Turbo Tax if I go Apple?

Sometimes I think Apple is too cute for their (and their customers) own good. I don't like the iMac due to the price and possible repair difficulties.  Other than that I think it is slick looking but much too expensive.  I have a nice HP 22" monitor I could pair with a Mini but I don't like the "pieces" approach. Real dumb Apple. Mini + external optical drive + external card reader.   But I would go that way if going Apple is better than going W8.

A big concern for me is getting lost in the translation to a new language be it W8 or Apple. FYI, I don't need or use 99% of the crap that comes with either OS.  Slick features would probably be lost on me if they are outside of surfing, email, and simple photo editing. No media server needed. Must work well with TurboTax, e*Trade Pro, and Fidelity Trader Pro.

Suggestions please. What are your impressions of W8?

[JohnR]

Must work well with TurboTax, e*Trade Pro, and Fidelity Trader Pro.

I think you're stuck with Windows. You can run Windows on a Mac using one of the virtualization programs (VMWare Fusion, Parallels, VirtualBox - I use VMWare Fusion all the time and it works well), but if your main need is to run Windows programs I'm not sure that it's the best approach.

Those programs may not be compatible with Win8 yet, I checked one and it only says Windows 7 in its system requirements.

[Doublej]

Your safest bet is to get something with Windows 7 Pro as it has an XP mode which should allow you to install and run old versions of Turbo Tax as needed. Microsoft eliminated this capability with Windows 8.

Regarding your existing machine Windows XP is known to slow down over time. Reinstalling the operating system on your existing machine will enable to run much faster. I did this on three old laptops and was stunned at how much faster they became. It's  straight forward but time consuming process. You reinstall XP from the disks or the partition on the machine. Then you have to install the Dell drivers. Then you install a bunch of patches, reboot, install more patches, reboot, install a service pack, reboot, repeat...until it finally is fully patched up to date.

Once you are done it's like having a new machine.


Windows 8 is a lot like Windows 7 with a new layer on top. Below the tiled surface or whatever they call it, the guts look like Windows 7.

[srb]

If you're interested in getting a new Windows 8 PC, you can go to Microsoft's website and download the Windows 8 Upgrade Assistant.  http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8
 
While it will analyze your hardware for Windows 8 upgrade compatibility (which is not what you want to do, I know), the generated report will also list all of your installed programs and organize them into categories of those that are compatible, those that have upgrades available, and those that are not compatible.
 
Beyond that, my other concern will be hardware drivers.  It appears that Windows 8 does not have a native USB Audio Class 2 driver, and therefore the hardware manufacturer will have to provide a driver.  I was interested in the Benchmark DAC2 HGC, and the website only lists a driver for XP/Vista/7 which is required for 192KHz and DSD playback.
 
I have a query into Benchmark about Windows 8 driver availability.
 
Steve

[Bizarroterl]

I suggest you give up on the old versions of turbo tax.  Install pdfcreator (or something similar) and print your returns to pdf. It'll decomplicate future OS decisions.  PDF documents are very portable, old software versions are not.  NOTE: this doesn't apply to last year's return, as you need that for this year's return.

[jarcher]

I'm going to be the Apple "Fanboy" here.  About 5 years ago I made the switch & wouldn't go back to Windows no matter what the flavor.  Aside from the optical drive, the 5 year old Imac I have hasn't skipped a beat.  No messing w/ security software subscriptions.  No system wide crashes (occasional application crash that doesn't lock up the whole machine).  Good built in free software - from "iLife" to Time Machine.  W/ TM when you're ready for you new computer you just hook up the drive to your new one at boot up, then when prompted tell it to use that, and will install all your programs / preferences / etc.  Makes migration totally painless.

Yes - the hardware new is more expensive than windows based machines.  If that's a big problem, buy a used one.  Even a sub $500 Mac - mini or laptop - will do 90% of what you need.  All the software you've mentioned is also available for the mac as far as I am aware.

To me it wasn't about the fancy marketing or the pretty hardware, it was about what my time is worth.  Monkeying w/ Windows problems & security wasn't worth it.  I just want to get what I want to do done. And to me, that's what its all about.

[JerryLove]

I don't think Win7 will be as much of a learning curve as you think it will.

I think Win8 will be the biggest learning curve and, bluntly, I don't like mixed Metro and legacy apps. I'm staying on 7 for now.

OS/X has versions of office and, I suspect, TurboTax.

If this is a "I don't know where to go, but I'm on XP now and just want it to work": I'd recommend Win7 as the easiest transition.

[toocool4]

Like most people have said, Windows 7 is your best option. It will be a lot easier to learn than Windows 8. Beside Windows 8 is new, let other people be the guinea pigs.
Most of what you have will work with Windows 7 and if not you can always try the XP mode.

If you do decide to go the Mac route, you can always run Boot Camp or VMWare or Parallels. By running Boot Camp, VMware or Parallels you will still need to get a copy of Windows. This way you get to run Mac OS and Windows on the same machine.

[Don_S]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.  I am reading them and giving due consideration.

Random comments:
XP is old.  I do know how to wipe my computer and reinstall everything but it is a huge pain. I am not good at it but I eventually get there.  If I am going to do that much work I want it to be on a new OS (computer) that will be supported for longer than XP will be.

I think my more recent TTax files would transfer fine to W7 since it has been around for a while and I am sure TTax was written to be compatible. I did save my returns to pdf files when TTax offered me that option.  My concern is to have at least the previous years program to work in case I have to ammend.  Or, as I recently did, create a phony return to try to estimate what my current taxes would be if I took $XX capital gains.

I was shown that it is possible to get to W7 or something like it by hitting the windows icon key and some letter (d?). 

There are still a few W7 machines available but no price discounts.  In fact HP went the other way.  I had an HPE h8-1360t in mind.  Base price $741 not on sale and no discounts. I was hoping for an eventual mark down. Yesterday I checked and it now has a $150 discount for a new base price of $780. If you are thinking the math does not work you are correct.  New price is $930 - $150 "discount" resulting in a $39 higher price than before.   Thank you HP.

Keep the suggestions coming.  Any experience with W8?  Horrible or not?  Easy to work around using the Windows icon key and appropriate letter key?  I am still leaning toward W7 if I can find a suitable machine. W8 has tons of junk that I don't need and don't want to have to deal with.

Black Friday and Cyber Monday are fast approaching.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

  10++ to what jarcher said.  I also have a 5 year old iMac and would never go back to windows.

[HAL]

Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit and 64bit have worked well with all my applications, including Open Office and Microsoft Office applications.  Minimum of 2GB for the 64bit version works well.  I cannot remember the last time Window 7 crashed to the point I could not stop a task and get the machine working. 

Win8 has a higher learing curve than Win7 when starting from WinXP. I have been running the Windows 8 64bit trial version for about 1 year on a machine and it is pretty stable from what I have seen.  Just loaded the full version of Windows 8 x64 on a new machine for trials and it sounds as good as Windows 7 for the Music Server application. 

If you are interested in a Win7 machine, I would do it quickly, as Win8 will be all you can get soon if MS does their normal phase in. 

[jarcher]

I'm sorta surprised there aren't more recommendations to move to mac.  I switched over my 70 year old mother to a mac 2+ years ago & she had no problems or complaints on how to use it. She only had minimal computer skills & had been using XP.

As for the migration : we took her PC to an apple store, they moved over all of her data & set up the new machine, and for that $100 fee it also gave her a year of instruction at the store if she wanted it. That $100 was so worth it as it took the burden off of me. And she actually never felt the need to ask assistance from the store, though she was glad to have that resource if she wanted.

And then there are all the benefits I previously mentioned.

Based on all that, I don't know why you would want to go it alone w/ another outdated windows flim flam, only in a few years to have the thing go senile in it's ineptitude and have to reinstall it or learn whatever new version of windows their marketing has come up with.

If for some miraculous reason you're not happy, then as others have mentioned you can install windows on the mac, either to run alone or in parrallel (whereas, unless you are very skilled, you can't install mac os on a non apple computer).

If I sound like an Apple commercial, its because they deserve praise for having done what's necessary to make computing a useful tool and not a chore.

[JerryLove]

I don't know why you would want to go it alone w/ another outdated windows flim flam, only in a few years to have the thing go senile in it's ineptitude

This is how flame wars start. Words like "flim flam" and "inept"

Further: it's really not based on a reality.

I could sit here and write a long bash of OS/X (never mind previous MacOS's). I could also write a long bash of almost every OS out there (at least the one's I'm familiar with; which is a good chunk). I could even do it without having to resort to functionally meaningless words.

If this person was a Mac user now, I'd recommend a Mac.
If this person had no computer experience... actually I might recommend Win8.
If I had seen mention of being a big user of an iPhone / iPad, that might make me suggest Mac.
But this person has legacy Windows programs. The one's he's mentioned have (I believe) Mac counterparts; but there may be others.

What then? He gets to go purchase a copy of Win7 on top of all the money he paid for the Mac so he can then learn how to setup bootcamp or a VM. He gets to deal with a clearly steeper transition than from XP to 7 (changed icons, unified menu bars, loss of start butting, etc). He has the joy of running dual OSs (see VM/BootCamp), and all to gain what?

Both Win7 and OSX are mature, capable OS's. I encourage you to make a specific case for the OS you think is best for him in his situation. Please don't bash the others.

[Don_S]

jarcher,

I had a friend who used to teach PC to low-income adults and children.  She switched to Apple and had to have training herself.  She could not figure it out.

As for the local Apple store it reminds me of a riot minus the tear gas and burning cars. Total madhouse good only for quickly buying and then running away. I ordered my iPad online so I would not have to deal with the store. Still, I am considering Apple and will visit the store again today or tomorrow (first day it rains) and see what I can learn.  I am keeping an open mind-somewhat. I am not impressed with what I have seen so far.

I remain convinced that Apple tries to hard to be different without necessarily being better.  A small, modest-priced tower with a built in optical drive and card reader would interest me a lot more than a Mac Mini with external drives and wires or an expensive iMac. They could make it small and too cute for words.

I plan to backup my computer to my external WD hard drive and use it to make the transfer.  Would that work with Apple?

[Don_S]

Please gentlemen, don't fight.

There are two reasons I am considering Apple.  One, numerous people have told me it is better although I don't quite understand why. Two, I don't know what W8 (or W7) will require me to learn so if I must learn a new language then maybe it should be OS. I love my iPad but I am not confusing it with a full function computer.

Why I doubt I will go to Apple:  I have used a PC since 1998 and only had two viruses. Other than that no major crashes or serious problems. OK, I had to rebuild two or three times because of viruses.  Actually one time was to get rid of the dreaded Milennium that I mistakenly "upgraded" to.  Most of my problems came when my computers became too dated to do what new systems required.  That means my W98 worked fine until I tried to use higher speed DSL with it.  Now my XP machine still works fine (but slow) except for error messages for "high memory usage" or "high CPU usage".  Does that mean Windows sucks or XP sucks?  No, it means 3GB of memory is not enough to handle e*Trade Pro and current websites that are full of ads and other memory hogging items. My CPU is dated and I am maxed out on memory.  I do not have much memory and it is slow (533MHz).

It is that simple.  It is like my old Subaru that had hand-crank windows and no cup holders.  Fine in its time but seriously dated. I can't really dis Windows because my computer is dated.

FYI, the W7 machine I am considering has an Intel i7-3770 quad-core (3.4GHZ with 8MB shared cache). 8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM. Just under $800 delivered (no monitor). Not a gaming machine but well above the average PC sold and a screamer compared to my current computer.

[jarcher]

jarcher,

I had a friend who used to teach PC to low-income adults and children.  She switched to Apple and had to have training herself.  She could not figure it out.

As for the local Apple store it reminds me of a riot minus the tear gas and burning cars. Total madhouse good only for quickly buying and then running away. I ordered my iPad online so I would not have to deal with the store. Still, I am considering Apple and will visit the store again today or tomorrow (first day it rains) and see what I can learn.  I am keeping an open mind-somewhat. I am not impressed with what I have seen so far.

I remain convinced that Apple tries to hard to be different without necessarily being better.  A small, modest-priced tower with a built in optical drive and card reader would interest me a lot more than a Mac Mini with external drives and wires or an expensive iMac. They could make it small and too cute for words.

I plan to backup my computer to my external WD hard drive and use it to make the transfer.  Would that work with Apple?

I'm a bit surprised she has trouble - aside from the sleep / restart / shutdown pull down menu being at the top left vs bottom left in Windows, there doesn't seem to be a big difference for 90% of daily tasks.  Perhaps if you want to get deeper into more technical operations there will be differences.

I don't blame you about the apple store environment, particularly for instruction sessions.  I think it would be better for them to segregate that in dedicated room(s) for a quieter environment.  So as you said - if there's a lot of talking to happen, best to go at a quiet time.

As for your desire for a modest-price PC w/ a built in optical drive & card reader : that would be the prior generation mac mini.  It's has an optical drive & SD card reader.  As the new one just came out, if there isn't stock of the prior version being sold by the apple store or another retailer, you could get a apple refurbed one (with warranty).  Either way you save money and your spend will definitely be less than $600 for an entry level version. If your comfortable w/ used, you can save even more money.

While your windows back up to the WD drive won't work for total automated migration at boot up w/ the Mac, the drive would be readable by the Mac to move the files over manually.  Alternatively, as mentioned previously, you could get the Apple Store to do it for you.

[Don_S]

jarcher,

I had already planned to move files manually from the WD to whatever I purchased.  I was not aware it could be done automatically.  And anyway, I would not trust auto. It is cool the way I backup.  I don't let WD use their weird method.  I move what I want to save in a way that mirrors my computer HD as far as organization. I can search and retrieve individual files or complete folders or categories (photos etc.)

Thanks for assuring me it will work with Apple.

[jarcher]

This is how flame wars start. Words like "flim flam" and "inept"

Further: it's really not based on a reality.

I could sit here and write a long bash of OS/X (never mind previous MacOS's). I could also write a long bash of almost every OS out there (at least the one's I'm familiar with; which is a good chunk). I could even do it without having to resort to functionally meaningless words.

If this person was a Mac user now, I'd recommend a Mac.
If this person had no computer experience... actually I might recommend Win8.
If I had seen mention of being a big user of an iPhone / iPad, that might make me suggest Mac.
But this person has legacy Windows programs. The one's he's mentioned have (I believe) Mac counterparts; but there may be others.

What then? He gets to go purchase a copy of Win7 on top of all the money he paid for the Mac so he can then learn how to setup bootcamp or a VM. He gets to deal with a clearly steeper transition than from XP to 7 (changed icons, unified menu bars, loss of start butting, etc). He has the joy of running dual OSs (see VM/BootCamp), and all to gain what?

Both Win7 and OSX are mature, capable OS's. I encourage you to make a specific case for the OS you think is best for him in his situation. Please don't bash the others.

Your raising the possibility "flame wars" creates tension where none is necessary.  It's possible to disagree w/out being disagreeable. 

I think I can be excused for peppering that one sentence with those two words - particularly when it is based on reality : the reality I and millions of other former Windows users have personally experienced. If I "bash" windows, it's for a reason, and there's nothing wrong with bashing something when merited.  Now, if Windows 7 some have been recommending have actually resolved the issues I mentioned : mainly security & stability & ease of use, and compared to the most recent OSX it is superior to it, then congratulations to Microsoft.  I'm doubtful.  And now w/ Windows 8 am further doubtful they will continue to improve on Windows 7. Whereas with OSX they have & will.

Your scenarios did not mention Don's particular one : a legacy windows user looking for alternatives.  OSX seems to me to be a very good alternative for the reasons I mentioned.

As for adding Windows to a Mac : I mentioned this as an alternate scenario if for some reason he didn't like OSX or needed the functionality of Windows for some reason.  I honestly doubt there would be a need to add it - and better to save your disk space not adding it. BUT if for some odd reason you wanted to or needed it, your investment in the Mac hardware would not go to waste.  The same can not be said of other windows based machines - i.e. in the sense of being able to add OSX to it if you didn't like windows.  Yes - you can run hacked versions of OSX on some PC's, I really doubt that's in Don's interest. 

[dragoonxp20]

jarcher,

I had already planned to move files manually from the WD to whatever I purchased.  I was not aware it could be done automatically.  And anyway, I would not trust auto. It is cool the way I backup.  I don't let WD use their weird method.  I move what I want to save in a way that mirrors my computer HD as far as organization. I can search and retrieve individual files or complete folders or categories (photos etc.)

Thanks for assuring me it will work with Apple.

Be careful about that external hard drive backup. Make sure it's in a compatible format. Generally external hard drives are universal, but Windows and Apple OS use different drive formats. You will need to format the hard drive to the correct type before putting files on there.

In short the only format that is cross-compatible with Windows and Apple's OS is FAT32. There are limitations to that such as the maximum filesize (I think it's something like 2GB?).

[JerryLove]

I think I can be excused for peppering that one sentence with those two words - particularly when it is based on reality

In what way is "Windows 7" "deceptive nonsense" ("flimflam") that OSX is not?
In what way is "Windows 7" "lacking fitness" (inept) that OSX is not?

I have a big stack of examples on OSX sitting here that I can put up for your Win7 examples. For fun: perhaps I'll even show you how HP_UX is inept or flimflam.

Again, let me be clear. I think OSX is a fine and valid choice. So is Win7. It depends on the person and their needs.